Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Yes, because SE's foresight was so amazing that they knew they'd implement Amnesia 4 years after the creation of SMN. And because SMN is soooooo OP that out of all the mage jobs it's the most deserving of being cockblocked by not just silence, but a second status ailment too. That's why their invites have been historically through the roof, right?

Armando, I know you can do better than this. Why anyone would even bring job reputation in as a factor with a gameplay element that affects several other jobs with JAs and MP besides SMN is beyond me. Amnesia does not exclusively give SMN problems - it was meant to give everyone problems. How do you think COR, SCH and DNC feel when they get tagged with Amenesia

COR can't roll the next buff
DNC cannot Walts, Step or Samba.
SCH cannot Accession or Rapture.
Not to mention PUP would face similar issues to SMN

And really, DNC is more fucked at an Imp camp than SMN could ever exclaim to be.

Furthermore, the mob in question is not a requisite target for EXP, nor is any mob that performs an amnesia attack. SMNs and SCHs both know, as healers, that imps will pose a problem for thier healing duties. They've also had many levels of EXP to get a feel for the AoE range of the buffs they do. This is why Mount Z is so much more relaxing, Magmetic Erucas let a SMN and SCH's buffing talents shine.

[Ketaru]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

BST, a job who just saw some updating in this update, is screwed over hard by Amnesia. Can't send your pet to fight, can't use reward, can't dismiss it to get a new one (or before it turns on you)...

Just throwing that out their to fan the flames a bit...

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Armando, I know you can do better than this.

Sure. And I know you can do a whole lot better than focusing on the last statement and ignoring the bit where I make the assertion that SMN definitely isn't the most OP mage job and isn't the one that deserves being fucked by both imp abilities in EXP. If anything that would be RDM.

How do you think COR, SCH and DNC feel when they get tagged with Amenesia

Sure. Keep ignoring the fact that all those jobs only come to a complete stop when tagged with one of the two abilities. And even COR doesn't come to a complete stop immediately since Amnesia doesn't remove rolls that are already up. Yes, they'll wear off eventually, but you don't go the entire Amnesia duration buffless. And the COR can still shoot. And oh, woe is SCH, can't use their stratagems any more! But they can still cast.

And really, DNC is more fucked at an Imp camp than SMN could ever exclaim to be.

Of course it is. DNC is built entirely around TP and JAs. It completely bypasses all elements related to magery - casting times, interrupts, recast reductions, MP, hMP, refresh. It was also created after Amnesia so the decision to allow DNC to be fucked by Amnesia was conscious and deliberate.

SMN looks like a mage, gears like a mage, and plays like a mage, (did I mention at least half of their workload falls squarely on their mage sub?) but a status ailment that's primarily aimed at melee jobs, JAs and WS fucks their already questionable non-sub functionality. Beat around the bush all you want - that makes no sense. Then you go and claim this is intentional, when SE could not possibly have considered the implications that Imps and Amnesia could have for SMN 4 years ago, and get surprised when I call you out on how ridiculous that claim is? Disagree with the rest all you like, this is really the bit I wanted to call shenanigans on.

P.S. Telling me Imps are not mandatory is like telling me Square doesn't need to fix the status quo or merit situation. People will resort to Imps. That is the reality of things. It's fucked up, but you can't cover the sun with your hand and act like Imps aren't among the top picks for EXP. They're every bit as mandatory as melee burns.

[Firewind]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Imagine a funguar spawns, six minutes pass and now Dark Spore and Silence Gas are ready to go when it gets 100 TP. Imagine a BST, going about charming them, TPing up those funguars, then releasing them around the camp. Mobs don't lose TP when they're released and I've had the unfortunate pleasure of finding that out upon charm wearing off or mischarming on a previously released mob. Many, many times.

You know that sounds like an incredibly useful way of getting rid of parties trying to camp on to of your party or those annoying parties that try to pull *though* your party and end up MPKing the healer because of it. If SE implement that for charmed mobs I'm going to start inviting BSTs .

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

>.> maybe they'll finally lower the points needed per merit? :D

I'd worship the ground they walk on if it was dropped to 1k, but even 5000 per merit would be much more reasonable. Oh yeah and how about raising the combat & magic skill caps one more time? 2 full weapons/magic skills just isn't enough.

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

BBQ: what it boils down to

Suppose an imp uses just one weapon skill of its 2 potential moves. There is a 50% chance that what move it uses will screw over a DNC over and a 50% chance that it'll mess up a WHM (even though the latter is curable with echo drops and they shouldn't be in range).

Every job combination in the game either has a 50% chance of being royally fucked or a 100% chance of being hampered but still functional.

Except SMN who gets the same royal fuck treatment 100% of the time.

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

>.> maybe they'll finally lower the points needed per merit? :D

I'd worship the ground they walk on if it was dropped to 1k, but even 5000 per merit would be much more reasonable. Oh yeah and how about raising the combat & magic skill caps one more time? 2 full weapons/magic skills just isn't enough.

I have no idea what you're even responding to. At 1k/merit, we'd melee burn 10 times as fast and still wouldn't touch normal party layouts.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

At 1k/merit you could seriously merit an entire job in 4 hours.

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

At 1k/merit you could seriously merit an entire job in 4 hours.

As much as I hate agreeing with Malacite...that's a problem? ;D

In all seriousness, 5k or dare I say, 4k per merit would be hot. But that's never happening.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

It would be pretty damn broken, I guess not really a problem, but good luck getting a merit party when no one needs to merit because they already merited their job last Saturday. XD

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

It would be pretty damn broken, I guess not really a problem, but good luck getting a merit party when no one needs to merit because they already merited their job last Saturday. XD

You could always sync to the lower levels and help them level and get your merits as you do it. In yuhtunga you can get up to 18k.hour with band on with the right party set up. So, meriting in a non merit party would be much better.

But 10k/Merit is kinda high. People who play this game have lives. Its not like they can sit around all day... Wait... We already do that... Atleast make it so that we can have a life and still play the game.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Sure. And I know you can do a whole lot better than focusing on the last statement and ignoring the bit where I make the assertion that SMN definitely isn't the most OP mage job and isn't the one that deserves being fucked by both imp abilities in EXP. If anything that would be RDM.Sure. Keep ignoring the fact that all those jobs only come to a complete stop when tagged with one of the two abilities. And even COR doesn't come to a complete stop immediately since Amnesia doesn't remove rolls that are already up. Yes, they'll wear off eventually, but you don't go the entire Amnesia duration buffless. And the COR can still shoot. And oh, woe is SCH, can't use their stratagems any more! But they can still cast.Of course it is. DNC is built entirely around TP and JAs. It completely bypasses all elements related to magery - casting times, interrupts, recast reductions, MP, hMP, refresh. It was also created after Amnesia so the decision to allow DNC to be fucked by Amnesia was conscious and deliberate.

So we're just going to gloss over that SMN will get that pact back in a minute.

Just like COR will get a Phantom Roll back, even though Amnesia can fuck things long enough to prevent double ups. Oh, and that they can't wipe a failed buff without merits, they're stuck with it for four more minutes after. Yeah, Amnesia was just arbitrarily thrown in not to fuck with them, just SMNs. Even though COR debuted with imps.

Just like SCH, even though they'll have to invest more MP to fill their duties while under the effect of Amnesia. SCH apparently totally wasn't meant to be fucked by amnesia after Imps being in the game for two years. No, that was just meant to fuck with SMN.

Just like PUP, who's going to have a pet that just does whatever if it doesn't get hit with the effect, too. Also emerged the same time as COR.

Go on, tell me how SMN how SMN is special because they have MP.

P.S. Telling me Imps are not mandatory is like telling me Square doesn't need to fix the status quo or merit situation. People will resort to Imps. That is the reality of things. It's fucked up, but you can't cover the sun with your hand and act like Imps aren't among the top picks for EXP. They're every bit as mandatory as melee burns.

And so is Valkurm Dunes, I'm totally sure you go there to level every subjob and don't solo around it or go to Korrakola because the community pull to Valkurm is just so strong.

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Yeah, Amnesia was just arbitrarily thrown in not to fuck with them, just SMNs

You're twisting words now. I'm out.

P.S. I had no idea you could solo through Imp levels. Or that people hated fast EXP.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

But 10k/Merit is kinda high. People who play this game have lives. Its not like they can sit around all day... Wait... We already do that... Atleast make it so that we can have a life and still play the game.

Just like everything in this game, it's not meant for everyone to have everything. You don't have to fully merit each job. It's great if you do, but you can pick and choose the most important ones if you know you have limited time to merit and do whatever else it is that you choose to do. Same as you don't have to camp HNMs, do Dynamis, level every job, or finish all of the nation missions. I don't think anything is wrong with 10k, considering you can easily break 2 merits in an hour in just a standard pickup meripo, and 1.5 merits in an hour if you sync to 55 or 37 on birds.

Meriting is like making gil. It takes a lot of time, it often sucks, and it's work. That's just how this game is.

[Neverslip]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

DNC is built entirely around TP and JAs. It completely bypasses all elements related to magery - casting times, interrupts, recast reductions, MP, hMP, refresh.

Small thing... nit picky, really. I agree with your point but we dancers have casting times... Woe to the GODS, WE HAVE CASTING TIMES.... and they usually are what kills us.

I'd really like to have something given (by "given" I mean quest or bought w/ A.N./I.S./gil) to us to get rid of Amnesia besides the Ecphoria Ring. I hate - hate - HATE Amnesia... can't believe I never "pet peeve" threaded that one.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

As much as I hate agreeing with Malacite...that's a problem? ;D

In all seriousness, 5k or dare I say, 4k per merit would be hot. But that's never happening.

HEY!

Meriting is probably the worst aspect of end game IMO, even worse than Dyna (at least to me)


Anything to lessen the grind = welcome. It doesn't help that I have 7 jobs @ 75 and to fully merit them all would ... well I'm not even going to go there.

It would be pretty damn broken, I guess not really a problem, but good luck getting a merit party when no one needs to merit because they already merited their job last Saturday. XD

#1) Merits don't make or break a job like certain pieces of equipment can (hi2u Yagrush & Usukane)

#2) People will still need buffer EXP from time to time

#3) Merit camps are already over crowded, and meriting itself just isn't fun at all for fairly small gains.

I'm hoping they come up with a better system in 14 which will in all likeliness involve guildleve and choosing from a set of new skills rather than endlessly grinding away on flamingos until your eyes bleed and you're on the floor writhing from carpel tunnel.