Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Kailea]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Uh, why would you not be able to do actions with the avatar? You're already paying for the buff with perpetuation cost, inability to /heal and having to wait for the buff to go up in power.

because, as always, people want to make the update sound worse then it really is, so they can QQ all month about it ;p

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Thought the OP said it reduces the prep cost.

Still not seeing a reason NOT to have this up at all times.

which makes me wonder if something is taken in return.

[Celeal]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

I am not SMN... but there are plenty of situations which the benefit of release/switch avatar out weight the benefit of keeping the same avatar out for this new SMN's buff.

At this point it is hard to say unless we know what is the initial bonus of the buff and the final bonus at its full potential. Since the update note compare COR's buff with this SMN's buff, I guess the initial bonus when the avatar is out is comparable to COR's roll with a bad number.

In the worst case, reduce perpetuation cost isn't bad.

[Evion]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Ifrit's FAVOR!!!!!!!! New best merit PT setup?

SMN
BRD
4x DD

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Even if you don’t use the favor for the buffs…it still says it reduces the avatar cost. Again what’s keeping me from having this constantly up?
If nothing… that’s cool, but almost seems too good to be true.

Ifrit's FAVOR!!!!!!!! New best merit PT setup?

SMN
BRD
4x DD

Doubt it…not much –perp for ifrit. Even with ballad I think your still losing 1 or 2 MP per tic. So once you run out of mp from curing…waa waa waaaaaaaa

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Again what’s keeping me from having this constantly up?

Nothing. But if it wasn't worth keeping an avatar out before, and you're not going to use a buff that helps, how does -1 perp cost suddenly make your avatar worth leaving out?

Also why is the concept so mind-boggling? Sometimes jobs get buffs. Sometimes jobs get a lot of buffs in a row and have nothing taken away from them. I'm lookin' at you, DRK and PLD.

[Evion]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

So, with the abilities -perp, and the new -perp from ACP and Moogle Kup de Crap gear, plus old -perp gear, tons of available refresh gear and BRD songs... you still can't get it to 0?

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Also why is the concept so mind-boggling? Sometimes jobs get buffs. Sometimes jobs get a lot of buffs in a row and have nothing taken away from them. I'm lookin' at you, DRK and PLD.

Not 100% accurate; they did nerf Absorb-TP shortly after giving it to DRK otherwise you're exactly right.

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Nothing. But if it wasn't worth keeping an avatar out before, and you're not going to use a buff that helps, how does -1 perp cost suddenly make your avatar worth leaving out?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining. I want any –prep cost I can get my hands on. I’m just trying to get a solo or kiter smn perspective…or even a party of smn’s perspective. When your soloing or doing something with a group of Smns, you do want to keep your pet out for as cheaply as possible right? I kite with carby because he’s free. Is he the best choice? No.

Most, if not all, avatars are a better alterative than using just carby. They can tank slightly better, seem to have better accuracy to me, better damage…its just nice to have another avatar out at very little or no cost. So that -1 (if that’s what it is) is kind of a big deal to me. Just like my Nashira hands are a big deal to me, just like my evokers ring is a big deal, and my AF Feet+1…etc.

Again, I’m not complaining about it. I just have this gut feeling there’s something behind it. And if there isn’t, I have absolutely no problem hitting that macro once every 2 hours. I think would put my Garuda and Fenrir down to -1 mp per tic ^^.

Also why is the concept so mind-boggling? Sometimes jobs get buffs. Sometimes jobs get a lot of buffs in a row and have nothing taken away from them. I'm lookin' at you, DRK and PLD.

sorry...maybe since i dont have drk or pld, i'm not used to being so lucky. I hope it is a buff.

So, with the abilities -perp, and the new -perp from ACP and Moogle Kup de Crap gear, plus old -perp gear, tons of available refresh gear and BRD songs... you still can't get it to 0?

I think most avatars cost 15mp per tic (don’t remember). My setup has Garuda/Fenrir cost -2…and I think that’s w/o sanction or FoV refresh.

So yes with you can start gaining MP with ballad/sanction. But I don’t see it being enough to keep up with main healing and not being able to rest here and there for a tic. And you don’t wanna lose a maxed out buff from Ifrit by siphoning every 5-10 minutes? Although don’t have /sch lvled…so maybe I’m missing out on something.

I thought rdm was preferred as main healer since they can stack refresh with ballad and that holds them off long enough to convert every so often...and have something better than Cure III

I always see DD,DD,DD Brd,Brd,Rdm in merit parties.
Maybe DD, DD, DD Brd, Smn, Rdm would be a good option?

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Doubt it…not much –perp for ifrit. Even with ballad I think your still losing 1 or 2 MP per tic. So once you run out of mp from curing…waa waa waaaaaaaa

Why not /Sch and use Sublimation for more MP? Yea, theres no SS or Phalanx, but you get more Mp use out of it.

[Evion]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

A good/decent merit pt requires very little healing. DDs will be /NIN with shadows or SAM with 3rd eye/seigan. The mob should be dead faster than it can actually hit someone 90%+ of the time...

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

A good/decent merit pt requires very little healing. DDs will be /NIN with shadows or SAM with 3rd eye/seigan. The mob should be dead faster than it can actually hit someone 90%+ of the time...

Ideally yes. I’m just talking from my own experience when I merit on brd. Even parties I’ve been in that hit chain 100+ still gets those random TP moves that once in a while that put them in the yellow or red. Not that a Smn cant cure that, it just takes multiple cure IIIs. And to me, chances are someone’s going to get hit again before the smn gets that ~150 mp back from refresh (estimating 3 cure IIIs).

Also, that might be really boring for the smn ><. I rarely merit on brd anymore because it was so boring. Now if I go smn and just stand there…maybe have ifrit fight a little…throw an occasional cure III or war cry. I’ll fall asleep ; ;. Almost feels like leeching no?

Also also…can be more difficult to setup but…don’t smn burns in Coca-cola tunnel net more xp for a smn?

Why not /Sch and use Sublimation for more MP? Yea, theres no SS or Phalanx, but you get more Mp use out of it.

I can’t really speak for smn/sch. I’ve seen a couple use it but they didn’t seem to benefit as much as I did with /whm. I started lvling sch but slowed down when I hit 12 ><. Been meaning to pick it back up for a while now but just never find the time. I have heard good things about /sch though so…maybe it’s time I jump on it again.

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

New best merit party layout:

a)
rdm
brd
ddx4

b)
rdm
brdx2
ddx3


@Feba: Go troll someone your own size.

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

I can’t really speak for smn/sch. I’ve seen a couple use it but they didn’t seem to benefit as much as I did with /whm. I started lvling sch but slowed down when I hit 12 ><. Been meaning to pick it back up for a while now but just never find the time. I have heard good things about /sch though so…maybe it’s time I jump on it again.

I can see it being useful though. With Light Arts activated as Smn/Sch, you will have an A+ skill in healing magic AND lower cost white magic spells. So, your healing magic will be that of a 75 Whm, and you will have 10% reduced white spells cost. I don't see why it wont be good to do.

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Light Arts will give you B+ skill. And you still won't have high level cures. In fact, I think you'll lose out on curagas.

---

despite my cynicism, i've been thinking of party layouts I'd like to see.

If the double attack buff of Ifrit's is decently strong within a minute of use, then smn, brd(cor), dnc, ddx3 could be quite interesting. The SMN will have to dismiss Ifrit for Garuda>Hastega every 3 minutes, so this all depends on how slow the Blessings gain momentum.

The DNC gives you a good merit healer, potentially a 3rd source of haste if damage taken is low enough (Though I'd still rather have DD/sam + DNC running Drain samba 3 for something like 60 hp healed/swing on 2 handed jobs), a quick debuffer , and despite popular belief, every bit of DD helps.