Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[Viciouss]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

I'm happy for summoner, it makes them more useful in parties and is just another reason a smn should be allowed to use their avatars instead of main heal. Someone already hit on the incredible benefit it will have in burn parties.

However I would have liked to seen Garuda's benefit be Haste. It would be a lot more useful than increased evasion. Really the only situation a standard party would benefit from that would be a meripo or a fast paced party with no true tank. What does a pld need with evasion? What does the rest of the party need with evasion if there is a pld? As a Corsair I was not in a single party where Ninja Roll was requested, even with a nin in the party. I probably would have used it if there was a nin tank, but those are becoming incredibly rare. So I would have liked to have seen her receive Haste.

As nice as this update is, and as much as summoner needed it, I still think people will prefer a cor or a brd over a smn. The benefits don't stack, as soon as they release their avatar its gone, and it takes time for the buff to reach its full potency (not instant like a Cor roll), and that still isnt more powerful than a Cor rolling an 11. You would really need 2 summoners in the standard xp party for this ability to really shine. And for killing birds and imps, not a lot of people are gonna waste 2 slots on a summoner.

That said, it will still be really appetizing in burn parties

[pixiehawk]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

However I would have liked to seen Garuda's benefit be Haste. It would be a lot more useful than increased evasion. Really the only situation a standard party would benefit from that would be a meripo or a fast paced party with no true tank. What does a pld need with evasion? What does the rest of the party need with evasion if there is a pld? As a Corsair I was not in a single party where Ninja Roll was requested, even with a nin in the party. I probably would have used it if there was a nin tank, but those are becoming incredibly rare. So I would have liked to have seen her receive Haste.

uhmm.... isn't one of her pacts Hastga? why would they give away for free what you have to spend a pact charge on?

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Really the only situation a standard party would benefit from that would be a meripo or a fast paced party with no true tank. What does a pld need with evasion? What does the rest of the party need with evasion if there is a pld? As a Corsair I was not in a single party where Ninja Roll was requested, even with a nin in the party. I probably would have used it if there was a nin tank, but those are becoming incredibly rare. So I would have liked to have seen her receive Haste.

You gotta think outside the box. Not everything is EXP, Merit Points and Endgame. What if you're low-manning Charybdis? Or doing a BC or mission fight? Or is being more wanted for CoP a bad thing? The SMN update may not revolutionize EXP but it gives SMN a lot more potential to support party members and gives them more reasons to be invited. These days when everyone and their mom subs NIN, Earthen Ward and Aerial Armor as not as awesome as they used to be, and WHM got some major boosts which hurts SMN's healing role by comparison. COR set the bar for buff potency pretty high, too.

EDIT: Titan will be a big boon in CoP 6-4 vs Ultima/Omega because the issue with those two isn't killing them, it's staying alive long enough for them to die.

And being able to serve as a Refresher is, in my opinion, pretty damned huge. It's not like Diabolos is a bad avatar to be "stuck" with either - Phalanx is one of the most delicious things you can bestow on a PLD in EXP.

Adding another source of Haste is just further increasing its monopoly as the end-all be-all stat - especially since it would stack with both Haste spell and Marches. The more Haste you can easily obtain, the more it's going to eclipse every other option in the game.

I still think people will prefer a cor or a brd over a smn.

SMN is not a buffing job in the same sense as COR and BRD. Now they have something in common but it's still for the most part apples and oranges. They just don't offer the same things.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

- Where are the new summons? >.>
- Titan should have been dmg reduction
- Ramuh should have been accuracy (so he can be used in a wider variety of situations, +crit is still golden)
- Garuda maybe should have been haste (magical haste though? and with a cap no higher than 10%)

(1) Avatar Quests are not exclusive to SMN, why would they be shown in a SMN update?
(2) Titan gives a bonus to defense, pretty much the same thing, though not too useful for endgame.
(3) No. We don't need a third job doling out accuracy bonuses. I think its enough that Refresh buffs got around to a fourth job an Double Attacks a third time.
(4) No. Garuda already gives Hastega.

I do expect COR to be in-line for an update now, btw, seeing as SE seems to like to take away from Fighter's Roll so much these days. I realize there wasn't much else to give Ifrit outside of that or attack, but still - steal from COR again? Weak.

I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed at BST. I was like "OMG WE CAN PICK ABILITIES!" ... but then it was only for Jugs, and some abilities needed more charges than others. Here's hoping charges aren't on a 1-minute timer like they are for COR & SCH (@75). Lack of new jugs is also disappointing.

I don't see what's underwhelming, since its appears to be a balanced solution to wanting to command a pet directly. I don't know what's so hard to understand about them saying you'll get a charge every minute the pet is out.

They can't base pet attacks off MP or Set points, but they can with cooldowns and charges.

[quote]I wonder if there will be a part 3 though? Or maybe they are saving some extra notes for the day of the update.[/quote

BST, SMN and RNG were the only jobs mentioned for this update.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

A random thought crossed my mind, but I wonder, like everything else SMN does, these effects are going to be restricted to the SMN's party, or if it will affect everybody in the area in Campaign.

The thought of giving Campaign NPC's ALL the avatar buffs is kind of making me giggle. Campaign is kind of dead on Hades atm, Beastmen seem to own majority of the land, so if this actually carried over to Campaign NPC's, that'd be nice.

Ifrit also has a Warcry like ability, Crimson Howl, so coupled with the Double Attack it serves as a very nice melee buff. And you're right, they can only really enhance one role(hybrids like BLU would see the benefit of Magic Accuracy though), and I'm assuming that this is obviously gonna weaken avatar attack in some way if Summoner's choose the "buff" route, otherwise this update is beyond broken.

Edit: Adding to avoid a double post

I do expect COR to be in-line for an update now, btw, seeing as SE seems to like to take away from Fighter's Roll so much these days. I realize there wasn't much else to give Ifrit outside of that or attack, but still - steal from COR again? Weak.

From the way this looks right now, as said, SMN can only have 1 buff active at a time. So while this is nice in several situations, COR buffing would still be superior and preferred in a lot of cases since you can spread rolls to different people for their different roles. Unless the magic accuracy bonus is amazing, I don't see SMN replacing COR in Manaburns anytime soon. It's just there aren't many COR, and for that matter many who are even good, so having SMN fill in that role would be a nice way of keeping those parties going.

[Romyro]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

and I'm assuming that this is obviously gonna weaken avatar attack in some way if Summoner's choose the "buff" route, otherwise this update is beyond broken.

I’ve been wondering/questioning the same thing.

Wouldn’t say broken though. Even if you can still do massive BP damage your avatar isnt going to last too long. And with 6/9 being unable to cure themselves…might make you think twice about BP:Raging.

[Neverslip]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Campaign is kind of dead on Hades atm

I see a ton of people in campaign these days... but we're all going to the city controlled areas cuz Bst controlled forts are a waste of time. Funny... when I'm in Besieged people say "everyone doing Campaign has killed Besieged". Seems to me Besieged (and Campaign for that matter) on Hades was/is always an unorganized mess. Unfortunately, I'd also have to say: most everywhere on Hades is a lil deaden'd these days >.>

[Omniblast]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Must resist going back to FFXI...

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

People not attacking BST controlled zones = campaign dieing. We'll only get the zone back if the NPC's zerg the hell out of it normally. They kind of killed interest in attacking BST controlled zones when they nerfed xp from hitting fortifications. What's the point of hitting them when I can port to a sandy controlled zone and get more xp?

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Wow, I'm actually amazed at the SMN update, it looks to be well done. BST is kind of cool, too, people have been saying they want to choose what TP moves their pets use.

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

I actually thought of two things as I was reading throught this topic.

1: When an avatar is out, it should give boosts to the stat that is aligned with their element. Such as Ifirit would give str, and Titan would give Vit. The bonus would increase the longer the avatar is out up to a maximim of 7. This would make Smns even more useful, and have them use more than just Diablos now that it will give refresh after 55.

2: If a smn has the staff skill capped and equips some ACC gear with a dnc in the party. Cant they also melee on a target that has mp as long as the Dnc is using Aspir Samba so that the Smn will never run out of Mp?

Edit:

People not attacking BST controlled zones = campaign dieing. We'll only get the zone back if the NPC's zerg the hell out of it normally. They kind of killed interest in attacking BST controlled zones when they nerfed xp from hitting fortifications. What's the point of hitting them when I can port to a sandy controlled zone and get more xp?

If an area is controlled by the beastmen, cant you actually go out to the beastmen and attack them for exp instead of whacking away at a fort?

[Clever Ninja]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

I haven't gone out to a Beastmen controlled zone in MONTHS cause being there either solo or one of 2-3 people in the zone tends to mean crap xp, but you used to be able to queue up a battle I believe by doing things in that zone if no Beastmen were around already since the Fortification would be attackable even if no battle was taking place.

Also I'm surprised this isn't 5 pages of crying cause of no new avatar announcements yet.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

1: When an avatar is out, it should give boosts to the stat that is aligned with their element. Such as Ifirit would give str, and Titan would give Vit. The bonus would increase the longer the avatar is out up to a maximim of 7. This would make Smns even more useful, and have them use more than just Diablos now that it will give refresh after 55.

Yeah, let's steal directly from SCH merit traits. Always awesome to steal from merit traits/abilities.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

[quote=Omgwtfbbqkitten;860219](1) Avatar Quests are not exclusive to SMN, why would they be shown in a SMN update?
(2) Titan gives a bonus to defense, pretty much the same thing, though not too useful for endgame.
(3) No. We don't need a third job doling out accuracy bonuses. I think its enough that Refresh buffs got around to a fourth job an Double Attacks a third time.
(4) No. Garuda already gives Hastega.

I do expect COR to be in-line for an update now, btw, seeing as SE seems to like to take away from Fighter's Roll so much these days. I realize there wasn't much else to give Ifrit outside of that or attack, but still - steal from COR again? Weak.

Quote:
I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed at BST. I was like "OMG WE CAN PICK ABILITIES!" ... but then it was only for Jugs, and some abilities needed more charges than others. Here's hoping charges aren't on a 1-minute timer like they are for COR & SCH (@75). Lack of new jugs is also disappointing.
I don't see what's underwhelming, since its appears to be a balanced solution to wanting to command a pet directly. I don't know what's so hard to understand about them saying you'll get a charge every minute the pet is out.

They can't base pet attacks off MP or Set points, but they can with cooldowns and charges.

I wonder if there will be a part 3 though? Or maybe they are saving some extra notes for the day of the update.[/quote

BST, SMN and RNG were the only jobs mentioned for this update.
__________________

1 - Hopefully they're saving it for update day, but showing off the new avatars woulda been cool.
2 - Def up is kinda moot... 5~10% damage reduction buff , even if only physical, would justify keeping titan out.
3 - Why the hell not? So far it's looking like Ifrit, Shiva & Diablos onry.
4 - Again, why not? Eventually the SMN's MP is going to give out, especially if you're using hastega. Another 5% haste is reasonable enough, possibly higher depending on the category (likely magical). In any kind of zerg scenario you'll have a BRD using SV anyway so it'd be irrelevant and how often you need +evasion in a PT setting?

I'm still skeptical about the BST update. It's going to depend on the recharge rate of charges for BST to see if Ready is worth it. Random WS are bad enough, having to wait possibly 6 minutes to pick the WS I want is even worse.

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions: Part II (10/21/2009)

Yeah, let's steal directly from SCH merit traits. Always awesome to steal from merit traits/abilities.

... I havent read up on Schs abilities. But isnt that casted on a single person? And it just gives them the element weakness/resistance. Not stat bonuses?

What Iw as taling about everyone gains stat boosts over time with the summon out and it only goes away when the summon is un summoned.