≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

[Armando]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Being rewarded with points toward gear is advancement, but part of the advancement is helping others get gear, too. If you just seek good gear for yourself, your LS cannot strengthen with you.

Now here's the rub:

I can't pop or kill an HNM by myself.

I can get all my Campaign gear solo.

There's the difference. Don't be surprised that people don't organize for Campaign when A) there was never an incentive to organize, and B) the EXP system is flawed such that soloing is more rewarding. Under those conditions, why should I team up with anyone? You could expect a similar dissolution of the EXP party playstyle if soloing yielded better results than teaming up. Why waste time gathering members if going solo means equal or better EXP, in addition to keeping all of the loot and not having to deal with other people or the time sinks involved in recruitment and replacement of members?

It makes sense to cooperate with others for HNMs, even give up some of my time to allow others to gain things, because there is absolutely no way for me to do it on my own. Either we all cooperate or we all get nothing. THERE's the incentive. If you could solo Sky, Limbus, or Dynamis, you wouldn't be teaming up with people for them.

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Campaign gear is crap compared to other things you can get as a team, though. The only people who don't realize that are the casual nubs who think that it's their $12.95 a month and they can play however they want. These people level from like 40-75 strictly on campaign and are gimp as all hell, and have no idea how to play their jobs. And they look at the campaign gear as "good enough" when most of it is below what's considered standard gear.

The problem with it, of course, is that these people never party and never realize where they've gone wrong, and by the time they even attempt to get into an endgame shell (for whatever purpose) they're laughed at by the good ones, and accepted by the poor ones who continually fail but persist on existing just for the sole reason of pissing the good players off (okay not really, though it seems that way) and the only reason these shells continue to exist is the constant string of gimps they can just fill their rosters with. Shitty cycle. This is slightly off topic, but campaign breeds the biggest pack of gimps since the start of this game, and that's part of the reason I hate it so much.

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

So much hate.

Campaign gear may not be as buffed, but it's way more attainable for most of the people who don't have the time to take a job with an endgame LS. (lol LS job aplications online )

Either way at least in my case as long as I can get all the cool new gear for the only activity (outside missions/quests) that's still fun for me on XI that's all that matters.




PS > But I was already 75 x2.75 by the time Campaign appeared and don't do any end game stuff, so I don't know how much impact it can have on players on their first job to 75.

PPS > /toss "Vodka Bottle" Neesan

[Ketaru]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

The fact that people would level from 40 to 75 complete on Campaign is dubious to me at least. As Armando said, just what incentive is there to do that? The EXP is slower, and above that, you even suffer a penalty for being below level 60. I'd sooner question if Level Sync parties or Astral Burn parties were the cause of that.

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

You'd be absolutely amazed how many people do it though, if only because they can't stand the "hassle" of getting a party. What hassle? Do some FoV, put your flag up, you're good. At least I get gil and XP from FoV, lol. But yes, some people would rather mindlessly whack away at fortifications than actually interact with other human beings in an MMO. I do realize the irony of that statement, but it has so much truth to it.

And honestly, I am sick of the campaign gimps. Some of them are so awfully shitty, and on the off chance you do get one of them to party with, they are practically useless.

I may be elitist, and I'm not afraid to say it, but there is a difference between good, acceptable gear and playstyle; and horribad, don't even know what the fuck players. And that gap has widened quite a bit since the implementation of campaign. Just look at the thread on BG, half those gimps are in campaign. It's just a breeding ground for shitty players.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------

Let's be real here, though, I don't expect HQ'ed out maxed gear. Far from it, acceptable and correct for the job gear, with appropriate gear swaps are fine. HQs are great but entirely not necessary. But you have people wearing shit that should have been left in 2004, or people who wear MND rings on SAM just so they have something in that slot. Seriously, it's a huge gimpfest.

[Durahansolo]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

horribad

Couldn't resist... A friend of mine leveled thf from like 45-60+ in campaign. He campaigns with his girlfriend who is a BST and I think she hit 75 in campaign.

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Duoing FoV with my NPC I get 4k+ xp in an hour (with XP band).

But I seriously doubt I could get more than that doing Campaign. How good is the xp for them?

[Durahansolo]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

How good is the xp for them?

But then too IIRC, the guy I was talking about did this before FoV came out so I know they have over 100k AN.

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Gotta love AN, I got a bunch of gear and somehow I still have more than 130k AN. Which by the time I can get the Medal I need for the new items (10 days?) it will probably be at 200k.

[Rothy]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

And that's when I'll move in. I was the only one fighting in La Vaule for the longest time. So I'm hoping I'll be able to do something like that in the northlands as well.

Once I finish off PLD or get it close enough to solo, you'll have me to compete with!

[Vyuru]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

OMG OMG OMG!!!! The Cobra Unit Harness gives me a little tail decoration!!!!!

It looks like an ankle bracelet or something, but for my tail!!!


BEST UPDATE EVER!!!!

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

PICS PLZ KTHX

Meow.

[Karinya]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Campaign gear is crap compared to other things you can get as a team, though.

Some is, some isn't. But you don't need a team to get it - that makes it more entry-level than assault/nyzul/other pickup-party-obtainable gear, even.

The only people who don't realize that are the casual nubs who think that it's their $12.95 a month and they can play however they want.

Which it is and they can. They don't need your approval (unless they're trying to join your LS).

These people level from like 40-75 strictly on campaign and are gimp as all hell, and have no idea how to play their jobs. And they look at the campaign gear as "good enough" when most of it is below what's considered standard gear.

Aside from the fact that I've never seen a single player that fits this description... You might consider teaching them (either by example from the more experienced LS members with the same job, or by advice and pointing them to guides etc.) And of course most people consider a lack of awesome gear to be what they join an endgame shell to *fix*, not a precondition for getting into one. But if you'd rather look down your nose at their lack of gear than help them upgrade, I don't have much sympathy for complaints about the results.

The main wave of crappy behavior was people who leveled from 60-75 on colibri. I haven't noticed any further deterioration since campaign (partly because it would take so long to level 40-75 *purely* from campaign that I don't think anyone could have done it yet since campaign came out).

The problem with it, of course, is that these people never party and never realize where they've gone wrong, and by the time they even attempt to get into an endgame shell (for whatever purpose) they're laughed at by the good ones, and accepted by the poor ones who continually fail but persist on existing just for the sole reason of pissing the good players off (okay not really, though it seems that way) and the only reason these shells continue to exist is the constant string of gimps they can just fill their rosters with. Shitty cycle. This is slightly off topic, but campaign breeds the biggest pack of gimps since the start of this game, and that's part of the reason I hate it so much.

I think you are seriously misdiagnosing the problem. Bad players have always been around, they got much more common after ToAU made beating up helpless wimpy mobs the dominant style of exp, campaign hasn't really changed this one way or the other.

Exactly what would a campaign player learn from joining a colibri party? Hate control? That he should use food? How to conserve healer MP? SC+MB? How to enfeeble effectively? Hardly. (To say nothing of the endgame skills you can't learn in any sort of exp, like how to work with mass crowd control.)


P.S. Good players - hell, good people - don't laugh at someone who doesn't know any better, and *especially* don't laugh at people who don't have great gear yet but are trying to get it. That's the behavior of stuck-up jerks with an inflated idea of their own importance.

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

And yet, I already said I'm elitist. I'm tired of shitty players with shitty gear walking around like they can do "whatever they want" until they join my party and gimp it up. Sorry, I don't want a 10k/hr merit party, that shit is frustrating as hell. And unless you can take the time to gear yourself properly that's what we're going to be stuck with. So it may very well be their money, but when their gimp-ness is affecting my gameplay then it becomes a problem.

And most of these gimp shitheads you can't teach them anything. They think they know everything, which is why they spend all their time in campaign, because no one will party with them. I am going to judge them because this game is old as hell and it's not hard to figure out how to gear yourself and how to play your jobs. People need to stop making excuses for gimps.

Also, being in a party at the very least should teach you how to work with others. This is an MMO. You play it to interact with others. If you want to solo all the time (not sometimes, but ALL THE TIME) go play an offline game.

[Feba]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

The Cobra Unit Harness

Please tell me it's the same.