≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

[Firewind]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

And yet, I already said I'm elitist. I'm tired of shitty players with shitty gear walking around like they can do "whatever they want" until they join my party and gimp it up. Sorry, I don't want a 10k/hr merit party, that shit is frustrating as hell. And unless you can take the time to gear yourself properly that's what we're going to be stuck with. So it may very well be their money, but when their gimp-ness is affecting my gameplay then it becomes a problem.

Wait, your server has merit parties that can hit 10k/hour? Can I move there? The last few I've been in didn't even hit half of that.

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

o_O







But then again I'm always the BRD in merit parties...

[Yellow Mage]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

But then again I'm always the BRD in merit parties...

This could explain your gratuitous misanthropy . . .

[Elwynn]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Oh god, have I got campaign stories for you guys!

NMs and regular mobs inflicting zonal death upon all in Xarcabard (S).
People actually trying to tank mobs in campaign.
Paladins being snobs trying to tank and finding out that this little Blu over there actually CAN out tank their sorry asses. Please note I love Plds tanking, just don't be snobs about it otherwise I WILL show you who will have the mob's attention, and it isn't going to be you. It'll be Muffin! =^.^=
Obvious campaign newbs causing widespread death.
People STILL trying to hide with mobs!
ZOMG! People actually fight forts!

Xarcabard is my new favorite campaign spot. I love watching people get killed 3-4 times without campaign tags on just trying to exit the zone. Have an exp buffer before you go in, and I am only half joking when I say that. Those flying NMs are fricking cool and very deadly.

I've said it before (maybe not here), and I'll say it again: SE just gave us an update full of both massive fail and massive lulz. The lulz are mostly in the new campaign additions.

The best has to be Xarc_S, what with the regularly appearing UFO dragon mobs that don't depop when kited, because they're NMs. Get one of those dragged over to a campaign battle and it's comedy gold, Jerry.

As for fighting forts, they'll stop when they realize that it does nothing for them union-wise because of the previous update's XP nerf. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if those fighting the forts are the ones who rarely campaigned over the past few months, and are only out there for the new stuff.

I've already started learning how to game the system from the viewpoint of a wimp campaign job (WHM or BLM) that can't get high XP: first, pick a larger union, so that you're leaning on the favored jobs when it comes lot time, and second, once an offensive battle goes to fort bashing, just wander off, rest your MP, and go read some intarwebs.

It's also epic to see campaign battles where the players don't 1) stand around the fort waiting for the mobs to come, followed by 2) attack the NM the moment they see him, then get slaughtered 15 seconds later when his buddies arrive. I suspect that next week's campaign will be full of offensive zones. (FWIW, on Fairy, San d'Oria managed to take all 7 zones this week. I'll be surprised if they lose any of them.)

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Yeah, this is what's gonna happen though.

SE's gonna notice that zones have been taken on all servers, and that players are RAPING campaign mobs.

SE is going to then make an adjustment to campaign mobs.

As per the usual player "fad/flavor of the month" the appeal to unions and campaign will wear off.

SE won't readjust mob strength.

Mobs will take zones and it will be damn near impossible to win zones back.



Happens all the time. SE doesn't realize that the first two-three weeks after an update we're ALL ABOUT their new content, and after that, we don't give a flying shit about it, but they adjust it anyway. The appeal to campaign will wear in less than a month, more than likely. Right now people are doing the unions because they want to see how much Dynamis currency is going to drop, when they see that it's really not that much, things will settle back down to a state of relative normalcy when it comes to campaign.

I personally wouldn't even bother. From what I've read, battles are ending ridiculously quickly, so quickly that people don't even have a chance to build up points. If I did campaign, it was for one reason: xp. If I can't do that, I'll do something else. I'm not interested in quick battles that are over faster than the first pull in Dynamis.

[Mhurron]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Wait, your server has merit parties that can hit 10k/hour? Can I move there? The last few I've been in didn't even hit half of that.

Jobs: WHM75

Well what did you expect?

[Nuriko]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

I've been doing some Campaign as well, especially while seeking on SAM ... but it's just not worth the trouble since the update. I figure that I'll just wait a while, and hopefully things will calm down without SE buffing the mobs too much. I still hope they'll do SOMETHING about the forts, I don't think they even give XP anymore, so there's no incentive to go to a zone without defenders (and how do you tell anyway? I'd be happy to go to fights where I'm not just wasting time...)

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Jobs: WHM75

Well what did you expect?

Seriously, lol. I've said this before, a lot of merit parties where I'm asked to be WHM I simply don't bother with. They couldn't get a RDM, so a WHM "will do." That means probably there isn't a BRD, let alone two, or a COR. The DDs are probably meh. In fact, the leader is probably meh, or he wouldn't be asking a WHM.

Nothing against WHM in meripo, but they're stigmatized the same way DRG got stigmatized a few years ago. They've since recovered but for a long time people who played DRG were absolutely lol. So I know just by virtue of having merited on both RDM and WHM that, even though my performance is the same, the parties where I'm asked as a WHM are much slower and much less likely to perform than the parties where I'm asked as RDM, simply because you either stick to the meripo formula or you don't. If the party is otherwise perfect aside from the main healer, they will wait for a RDM before asking a WHM, 99% of the time. If the party is kinda okay but just needs someone to heal, they will ask a WHM and "settle."

It's a stupid cycle but it's something I've observed. I'm all about showing that WHM is a powerful merit job, but most of the time when I get invited on WHM the party is far below my standards and not worth my time. Yes, parties with no BRD, no COR, and just "Use sublimation u'll be fine." It's not just about my MP. I don't give a shit about MP in merits. No BRD means kills are going to be mad slow. People don't realize this, as a healer I understand the BRD is crucial to ALL the jobs in the merit party. Not just mine. And thus, I won't merit without at least one.

But a lot of the people who ask WHMs to merit just have no idea how to form a merit party. I call it the "settling" mentality. If they're "settling" for me as a WHM for their merit party, they're probably "settling" for something else that's less than optimal. No thanks.

[Durahansolo]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

As per the usual player "fad/flavor of the month" the appeal to unions and campaign will wear off.

You forgot "SE Adjusts (Nerfs) amount of AN and XP received for killing campaign mobs." goes on the line before that.

I've been at work all day and I'm still here lol. Has anybody gotten any of the new weapon augments or have they been listed yet?

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Unless you party with JP players.

Then you'll see WHMs in parties at least as often or at the same time as a RDM.

BRD + (COR or RDM) + (WHM or COR) + 3 good DD/NIN setup.



I just wish I had the time to party. Oh well, maybe on sundays. /shrug



Edit > The dd/nin part is very situational, depending on the setup and skill /war or /sam seems to work pretty well if people knows what they are doing.

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

JP players also make everyone sub NIN. There was a time when I used to think that was best, too, but now that I've seen most people can handle themselves /SAM or /WAR, I'd rather have that than /NIN. JPs do about 20k/hr with their setups which is fine, but really great merit parties can do 30k/hr+, and there isn't any /NIN going on there.

It all boils down to preference, but JP logic is flawed. They think that going /NIN helps your healer. But killing faster with more damage-oriented subs also helps your healer, because you're killing faster and there's less time to take actual damage. To each his own, though, I know how I prefer to merit, which I suppose is why I don't bother with it, because the hassle of finding an acceptable merit party is not worth my time lately. lol.

[Raydeus]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

It all depends on what DDs you get. Going /WAR /SAM even /DRG have worked pretty well in my experiences. But the DDs need to know what they are doing and pay attention.

The way I see it /NIN is usually a safety net for pickup parties. It may not be required or even helpful if you are partying with people you know, but if you are going on a pickup party I think /NIN is a pretty wise choice that can potentially save you a lot of headaches.

So for me having a JP pickup merit party doing 20k+ painlessly is the best way to get through the grinding.


I'll leave the 30k+/hr to the LS parties out there.

[Aksannyi]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

Yeah basically I wouldn't bother joining parties outside my LS after a while.

[Ketaru]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

I've already started learning how to game the system from the viewpoint of a wimp campaign job (WHM or BLM) that can't get high XP

Why are you saying WHM is a wimp Campaign job? The job has the skills, and the gear, and the weaponskills, and the subjob availability that actually makes them one of the best Campaign jobs, not one of the worst. Healing sure is a nice thing. Don't know where this game would be without it. But plenty of jobs now have resources to keep themselves healed (especially the same old ones that keep getting brought up: RDM WHM PLD BLU DNC PUP which are, without a doubt in my mind, the most common jobs to see), and those that don't often sub /DNC, and some like MNK, SAM, and NIN use /DNC quite well. With so many people not joining parties in Campaign and thus figuring out how to take care of themselves, the fact is that if you do nothing but heal in a Campaign, you, in fact, are actually rather redundant to have around.

What's more, having your skills levelled is far more rewarding to WHM than it is to say WAR. You can have Club leveled and Healing and Enfeebling and Divine, and none of these things overlap when it comes to calculating EXP. WAR can have Axe, Great Axe, and Sword levelled, but they're not going to get more EXP because they switch from Maneater to Joyeuse and started doing different types of damage.

I'm sure it has to do with how you envision WHM and your preferred playstyle with it. But to that end, I'm sure I could come up with a big bag of questions for why I'm not allowed to do certain things in parties.

[Elwynn]

Re: ≪Jul. 21, 2009 (JST) Update Details≫

I know what I'm talking about, because I do play WHM in campaign (do you?), and like how you're suggesting, and it wasn't easy to even get to where I could.

I'm talking about points, not survivability. WHM simply can't get the XP/hr of a proper melee job in campaign. Only now there's not just points on the line, but loot too, and union treasure pools are filled on the same basis as XP awards. (that is why I'm now going to game the system by always joining the largest union I see)

Healing and raises don't get you decent points, though it was okay to get me to 65 or so. After that I needed melee and uncapped fort bashing to get to 75. My XP per battle went way up once I was able to hold my own in melee.

The spells WHM has to cast to keep from dying (like Stoneskin) take so long to cast that the real DDs not only get more hits in, they get to build more hate. Of course campaign XP is heavily weighted toward taking hate. And while WHM can stand up to a bit of hate, in the long run, if someone doesn't take it back from you, you're dead. Then you get five minutes of weakened, during which WHM is damn sure not going to stand up to much damage, especially a taru.

Sure, you can heal others for hate, but it's a pain in the butt to heal when you're also in /attack, because (unless you're in a party, which never happens), you have to constantly click around to find someone needing healing, and it uses up your MP pretty fast, after which you have to sit and /heal, during which time you gain no points. The MP recovery club weapon skills are crap, and Spirit Taker requires you to have a fully capped (230/230) staff skill.

WHM isn't so bad if you take the time to raise your melee skills, but you're not going to do that in an XP party, because they aren't going to let you out of that cage in back, and you're not going to do that in campaign because SE decided that they didn't want people getting skills in campaign. It took me a lot of work to cap my Staff skill without a 75 non-mage job to lean on. And don't tell me about "subjob availability". You still have to level the subjobs first, and that takes a lot of work too.

Also, magic attacks are esentially nerfed for campaign rewards, so even though BLM can do nice damage with nukes, they're also gimped for campaign points. WHM doesn't even have that choice, since Banish is slow, and Holy is inefficient and slower, since all the WHM nukes have a long recast time, even after recent adjustments.

The main problem is that WHM (like RDM) is a slow DD job, and takes way too long to do the kind of melee damage that gives decent points in campaign (especially with the current flood of players), and unions only make it more obvious. Also, the points are limited by the number of enemies (now that forts give esentially nothing), and once the fast DDs (or NPCs) kill them all, that's it, now you have to run around and find a new battle.