Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I love my hMP gear. My husband will be out soloing and not bring any hMP gear. I'll be out there with him with my hMP gear and regening so quickly that he is soon pissed off and decides not to solo anymore. LOL I'll always take advantage of hMP gear even if its only +1.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I've seen people seriously say that somebody needs to cure the BLM ... can't they cure THEMSELVES? Sure, they'll use MP doing it, but it beats dying, and when all the BLMs are eating AoEs in range (doing the wyrm KSNM99) you probably shouldn't be there if you're not FULLY ready to nuke...

Depends. If you're getting smacked (meaning you pulled hate) good luck curing yourself. Or if you have no MP (which means you're basically retarded, but whatever) then you'll need a cure. I always cure myself when I can. I feel really out of place when I'm on a job that has no curing ability.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I feel really out of place when I'm on a job that has no curing ability.

Ya this drives me bonkers. I always go for my macro and then realize I'm screwed. LOL

[Coinspinner]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I've seen people seriously say that somebody needs to cure the BLM ... can't they cure THEMSELVES? Sure, they'll use MP doing it, but it beats dying, and when all the BLMs are eating AoEs in range (doing the wyrm KSNM99) you probably shouldn't be there if you're not FULLY ready to nuke...

If they got hit by AoE, yeah, they should heal themselves. If they got aggro then they would be risking getting aggro again, and they should only heal to save their own lives.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Other than Aky and myself, who else here is a 75 BLM and uses it at events?

Just curious, because I'm betting those of you championing /SCH and MP regen don't.

I tried BLM/SCH for dynamis once, it was ugly. Never, ever, ever doing that again. You never know when shit might hit the fan.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

This is silly. Nobody expects a melee DD to turn around and stop damaging the enemy to keep their hate generation down. They expect them to sub NIN and blink away the damage. You would boot a dude who periodically turned around and did nothing, or at least complain.

Uh, I see melees do this periodically in EXP and campaign. Taking damage reduces enmity, dealing damage increases enmity. To cease dealing damage and start taking damage is doing tank a favor and being a responsibile melee. The melee that continues to go berzerker barrage on a mob and can't get shadows back up is bringing the PT down, as is the cure happy WHM that drops a Cure IV on him.

BLM is there to do steady, substantial damage and decisively end fights - not spam magic like a nuke-happy fuckwit.

Problem is with BLM - like melee DDs- is that they let the damage go to their heads and forget that they have obligations to the party/alliance, too. No one can be an awesome DD while they're eating dirt or preventiing others from making more effective kills.

[Rothy]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I tried BLM/SCH for dynamis once, it was ugly. Never, ever, ever doing that again. You never know when shit might hit the fan.

I could see how it works for some events.. but Dynamis is one I'll never use it for. I ALWAYS come /RDM, I still get my heals and I use a RR Earring when I need it.. plus the added awesome of /RDM.

/SCH is a massive NO for me.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Yeah, the way you worded it originally, it sounded like you were laying this all on the BLMs, when there are plenty of retarded melees who will do the same thing. People need to learn when to back the fuck off, this is why a lot of idiot linkshells still wipe to Fafnir - they're too busy spamming TP on it and letting it continue to Hurricane Wing on them, when it eventually gets too much to handle and their melees don't know when to back off, and worse, their leaders don't know to tell them to.

And then they blame the WHMs, like they have endless pools of MP for Curaga II/III/IV. And these are the linkshells that manage to get their WHMs terrorized. I got terrorized once on Fafnir, we had one tank, and I was MBing Holy a bit much. And truthfully, I didn't know my own strength with that one. XD That's off topic anyway, though. The point is, people need to know when to back the fuck off. They don't, and that's when they wipe. It's so simple, yet so many fail to grasp this concept.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

This is silly. Nobody expects a melee DD to turn around and stop damaging the enemy to keep their hate generation down. They expect them to sub NIN and blink away the damage. You would boot a dude who periodically turned around and did nothing, or at least complain.

Wow, had to go and find this quote since Kitten didn't put who said it. Any DD worth their weight will turn their ass around when its needed. You should instinctivlely know when to do this. You weigh whats going on around you (how good your healers are, how much mp they have, how well the tank is doing his job, etc) and you just know when to do it. Unless you are one of those "I am THE UBER dd and my dmg is what makes or breaks this pt/ally" mentality dd's, you play as a team and know when to back off. I'd never boot a person that DID THEIR JOB CORRECTLY, I'd /t him and thank you and ask to have his f**king baby. LOL

Other than Aky and myself, who else here is a 75 BLM and uses it at events?

Just curious, because I'm betting those of you championing /SCH and MP regen don't.

I tried BLM/SCH for dynamis once, it was ugly. Never, ever, ever doing that again. You never know when shit might hit the fan.

/

And yes, I will not use /sch. It's just my personal feeling and probably the stubborn German or Russian in me sneaking out. LOL

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

I'd /t him and thank you and ask to have his f**king baby. LOL

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Heh.

/NIN sub is used as crutch too much these days anyway. In the best merit parties (30k or more an hour) DD's don't even sub NIN because it doesn't increase your damage output enough.

[Takelli]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Heh.

/NIN sub is used as crutch too much these days anyway. In the best merit parties (30k or more an hour) DD's don't even sub NIN because it doesn't increase your damage output enough.

I think /nin is WAY over rated anyways. Yea, it doesnt increase damage at all. The only job that I actually want to sub nin is the war as a back up tank. As a Rdm I have run out of mp before, and people think that because I am a Rdm, they don't need a Brd, or even a Cor because I have refresh and convert.

When I hit lvl 41, people started to not invite another mage job, and the puller pulls 2 mobs at a time, obviously Im going ot run out of mp, and people will die, especially when Sleep gets resisted, and the mob eats my Stoneskin as no one has any damage mitigation abilities besides teh Tank, so I die, and teh party wipes, then I get blamed for a bad party set up (Even if I didn't make the party.)

Thats why 99% of all my parties I like to have 2 mages in it incase shit hits the fan, and theres always another that can heal. Most of them are Rdm (Me), Mage, Support, Tank, DD Support/DD.

The last party I was in was...

Rdm/Whm (Me), Sam/War, Brd/Nin, Cor/Rng (Rare to see that now lol), Nin/War, and Sch/Rdm. I NEVER needed to use convert, and I was able to nuke while healing, as well as letting the Sch nuke. We where in CN at lvl 42 in the secret room, and kills where going fast as hell. The Cor kept saying that the Sam was teh only DD, and that kills where going to be slow. I think we where near 17k/hour. After I gained lvl 43 I had to leave thoug because my shoulder started to kill me for some reason -.-;

Sorry for going off topic... >.<

<Edit> Also the sams name was Suicidla(something), and he really did live up to his name lol. He kept pulling hate, and he even was asking for haste... -.-; Good thing I wasn't lvl 48 yet... haha XD

[Mog]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Other than Aky and myself, who else here is a 75 BLM and uses it at events?

I do, and I sub ninja for inside sea stuff, and practically rdm for everything else that I do.

/nin may not have that many uses, but for stuff like ix'aerns and fortitude, it's always useful.

[Coinspinner]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Uh, I see melees do this periodically in EXP and campaign. Taking damage reduces enmity, dealing damage increases enmity. To cease dealing damage and start taking damage is doing tank a favor and being a responsibile melee. The melee that continues to go berzerker barrage on a mob and can't get shadows back up is bringing the PT down, as is the cure happy WHM that drops a Cure IV on him.

No kidding. When you have aggro, you stop dealing damage, and you try to get your defenses back up, or shed enmity some way. Decent BLM aren't gonna try and stand there and try nuke while they have aggro. Wouldn't even work if they tried, especially not if they are subbing SCH.

I meant a guy that just randomly turns around for half the fight w/o having aggro or anything. Which is sort of what a BLM is doing if he's throwing one spell per fight to avoid aggro. He does half the damage the other guys do (or less) but didn't get hit - good job? It's an unrealistic scenario.

BLM is there to do steady, substantial damage and decisively end fights - not spam magic like a nuke-happy fuckwit.

BLM does sudden spikes of damage. Steady damage is not their forte. If they aim to end fights then they will sometimes find that they are doing more damage than it has HP left, or that somebody else killed it and you interrupted your /heal for nothing. What is spamming? Is it casting more than one nuke per fight? Or just ignoring the tank's hate, should you be so lucky as to have one.

Problem is with BLM - like melee DDs- is that they let the damage go to their heads and forget that they have obligations to the party/alliance, too. No one can be an awesome DD while they're eating dirt or preventiing others from making more effective kills.

Well, see, even assuming a good player who understands this, BLM does not integrate well in a party with melee DD. You are being kinda vague. Can you explain how a BLM/SCH should play in a TP burn? They don't need help in alliances. And also how it performs favorably to a BLM subbing WHM or RDM in that situation, and how it contributes sufficiently to justify inviting a BLM at all, if you could.

Based on experience I don't see it working well regardless of sub. Just seems like an argument about how much or how little they can suck.

[Vyuru]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

Nobody expects a melee DD to turn around and stop damaging the enemy to keep their hate generation down.

Damn well better if they have no defensive abilities up or can't get them up, such as Utsu: Ichi.

but I don’t think it’s the BLM players’ fault that they are out of the game ATM.

Forgive me while I fall out of my chair laughing....

Pre~ToAU:

Predominant party style: SC+MB, Blms were highly desired. Sure you had your monk bone burns, and the arrow burns, but the party style was still predominantly SC+MB. Then Blms get it into their heads that THEY can manaburn for massive exp, and said screw you to the SC+MB crowd. True, there were TP burns in Sky, but that was more or less the exception as the one and only place that people commonly accepted them, and not even all jobs were welcomed there either. ToAU comes around throwing a massive bone, no, not even a bone, a prime rib with all the fixings, to melee that lets them get even more exp than a manaburn. Suddenly Blm want in on parties once again, but strangely people, and especially I have noticed those people playing melee jobs back in the SC+MB days who the Blms more or less collectively spat on, are reluctant to invite them. Colibri don't help matters much, true, but it's not stopping people from inviting Blms to Imps or Eruca or Trolls or whatever else they want to level on.

Also, someone mentioned that Blms ought to cure themselves if they have hate and are taking damage, and while I will say that Blms in general ought to be a little more open to healing from what I have seen, I will also say that if they are taking damage it might not be the wisest of things to heal themselves. If they heal themselves, they build back enmity, judging from my campaign experiences possibly more than they lost by taking the damage, although I don't know the enmity equations for that. IMO it'd be best if the tank healed them to regain hate, or someone else healed them to keep them alive while they lost enmity from being hit. Spoken not from an endgame perspective but more party/event perspective.

They don’t have good buffs or debuffs.

Ya'll have excellent debuffs.

We don’t have a “Regen” equivalent that lets us deal damage more efficiently

Bio says hi. Sure, it may not beat the Sch's newfangled DoTs, but the Bio line of spells is still a very potent spell, stack with the Poison line. Requires time in order to get more out of it, but that's the tradeoff isn't it?