Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

[Malacite]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I don't know about raising the caps, but the % from magic damage should be increased. These jobs are more limited by their reliance on MP to deal damage. And nuking is very MP-intensive. I don't think it can really be abused because, by nuking, you still have to contend with being attacked, unlike self-buffing.

This is why I feel they should increase both magic damage and healing percentages. The quicker a WHM can cap out on cures, the sooner they can get to meleeing (or do both simultaneously). And really only 3 jobs will really benefit from the cure % up (PLD, WHM and RDM) since they can use Cure IV and still melee for decent damage. I'm not so sure about DNC because of it's reliance on TP and the fact that Waltzes are party only.

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Again, every job would gain more exp from raising the cure cap because Melees will always have TP to burn in campaign and will always have AoE dmg to cure back. There is nothing stopping that Nin/Dnc or Sam/Dnc or any melee job /Dnc from spam curing themselves when they take damage to further increase their exp gains. Especially if they want to and actively try to pull hate.

EDIT: Although, to be honest, even melee would still benefit from having higher magic % damage in their EXP. Most obviously don't do it, but for example, I suspect a THF could alternate Dancing Edge (Evisceration providing it will close a skillchain) and Gust Slash/Cyclone and still get the physical damage cap while adding some magic damage to his EXP.

Throwing in a random, low dmg magic based WS would have almost no effect on the total Exp gained from melees. In fact they'd probably get the same Exp from pure Dmg done by using stronger, melee based WS. At worst it would grant a slight bonus to melees who use magical WS, but in the end it just wouldn't be worth it.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Throwing in a random, low dmg magic based WS would have almost no effect on the total Exp gained from melees. In fact they'd probably get the same Exp from pure Dmg done by using stronger, melee based WS. At worst it would grant a slight bonus to melees who use magical WS, but in the end it just wouldn't be worth it.

Oh good. Then yeah, go for increasing % of damage calculated into EXP from nuking.

This is why I feel they should increase both magic damage and healing percentages. The quicker a WHM can cap out on cures, the sooner they can get to meleeing (or do both simultaneously). And really only 3 jobs will really benefit from the cure % up (PLD, WHM and RDM) since they can use Cure IV and still melee for decent damage. I'm not so sure about DNC because of it's reliance on TP and the fact that Waltzes are party only.

The goal is to increase the EXP for jobs that can't already get good EXP though, and those jobs are BLM and SCH. I don't know about SMN since I've heard pet jobs can do pretty well for themselves in Campaign so long as they're creative. But SMN is pretty MP intensive itself. PLD, WHM, and RDM already get fine EXP in Campaign. Increasing EXP from healing would only further increase the gap.

Just because you don't like how they do it doesn't mean it's not being done. But quite frankly, nobody is going to like every little thing this game has to offer.

[hexx]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

They should add an exp bonus to campaigns for every time you win a campaign battle and make the beastmen retreat, or keep the allies from retreating. That should help get people their exp AND push people to fight for the cause.........thats just my opinion tho.

[Karinya]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

The problem with a win bonus is that idle people would get it too, as long as they were there for the win. The point of having exp strictly based on what you actually do is to keep freeloaders from getting decent exp.

They just have the numbers a little off, atm, in a way that underrewards actions that aren't melee. I think they should assign a few people from the dev team to campaign a few times as each of the 20 jobs and see what results they get, and use that to help inform their adjustments. Or, heck, just collect statistics on player main job, level, subjob, length of time in the battle, number of deaths, and exp/AN earned, and analyze those.


P.S. A hint to help balance buffing: it should count much less if the player/NPC being buffed doesn't currently have hate from any mob (so you can't just stand in a corner and buff yourself). But buffing players who are fighting should be worth significantly more - for one thing, the person doing the buffing gets hate that way, which puts them at least potentially in danger. IMO, this would work much better than simply imposing a low cap and making it hard for buff-oriented jobs to do anything (other than trade in tags every couple minutes).

Allowing party spells and abilities to work within unions would also be very helpful, since it's fairly rare to see actual parties formed in campaign. Possibly AoEs should have a maximum number of affected players, or give no more contribution after the first N players affected, or something like that. Auspice, Earthen Ward, Accession+Regen II, Healing Breeze, etc. on a whole union would be pretty cool (to say nothing of songs and rolls!), as would letting the whole union (well, whoever's fighting the same mob) benefit from your samba, but you wouldn't want it to be *over*rewarded compared to melee, since some jobs can't do things like that.

[Sekighara]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Karinya that was spot on I agree. I think you should copy and post that on the SE suggestions to be sent over. The party thing is completely true, I was in Ngustaberg S and everyone had there flag up. Also I thought it was strange that SC finishers get extra xp but not MBers or SC starters. Again most likely done to prevent xp given out to unplanned actions. So MAybe they can implement that camp parties that use SC + MB and give additional bounus to theparty ontop of the normal bonus. FOr level 1 2 and 3 could be given different bonuses.

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

The problem with a win bonus is that idle people would get it too, as long as they were there for the win. The point of having exp strictly based on what you actually do is to keep freeloaders from getting decent exp.

If making sure the people you buffed had hate on a target when they buffed to get their exp, well why not make it so you would've had to have hate during the fight to get the win bonus. The longer you're engaged and actively attacking/defending/buffing targets with hate, the larger the bonus will be at the end.

I also think anyone who engages/attacks/assists on the bosses should get bonus Exp too. If you attack the boss, or help people who are attacking the boss with buffs/cures, you should get a boost when he goes down.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Careful. You're all going down a dangerous road. Remember, SE thinks we already get too much EXP from Campaign.

[Raydeus]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

What a coincidence. I think SE's FFXI already got too much money from me.

[Armando]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

The party thing is completely true, I was in Ngustaberg S and everyone had there flag up.

Problem is, you can't tell if that person is seeking a Campaign party or is just seeking an EXP party while they solo in Campaign. This Union thing seems like a decent enough solution.

[Karinya]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Problem is, you can't tell if that person is seeking a Campaign party or is just seeking an EXP party while they solo in Campaign.

Almost always the latter, I think. Unlike Besieged where people form parties fairly freely even with strangers, the no-parties-in-Campaign culture is so strong, hardly anyone ever tries, and if they do, other players aren't receptive to the idea.

And it's not hard to understand why, either - healing/buffing others gives you nothing and helps them make more exp (when they're already making more than you and you don't get a share). Who wants to sign up for that?

This Union thing seems like a decent enough solution.

Potentially, depending on how it is implemented. I'm cautiously optimistic.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Partying with others in Campaign is not necessarily going to hurt EXP. Often, if it looks like it would really help against an NM, I would offer to group with a PLD on my RDM so I can give him Phalanx II and Refresh. Trust me, you'd think they would really appreciate stuff like that, especially when they're the type that is set on tanking. I'm almost universally turned down.

I almost never turn down an invite to me though, as long as I don't think the other guy is dead weight. I don't know, maybe people I invite think I intend to leech off them. Honestly, if I didn't care about fighting the NM leader at all, I'd just Evaluate and leave.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I don't want to party with people during Campaign because I want to get invited to a party where I'll actually make a decent xp/hr. Campaign is notoriously slow and boring to me. The one good thing about it (unlike Besieged) is that if I get an invite halfway through, my efforts didn't go to waste and I can turn my tags in even without the battle ending.

[Malacite]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I don't want to party with people during Campaign because I want to get invited to a party where I'll actually make a decent xp/hr. Campaign is notoriously slow and boring to me

Yup and it would be nice if with the top medal you could get 10k/hour soloing campaign. Honestly 1 merit an hour isn't that bad when you can easily earn even better EXP in a merit party.

[hexx]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I do parties in campaign if im not really seeking (which has been the case as of late) and even more so now cuz im trying to build up enough AN for my I.R. Body piece. Fact is, its easier to take on some of the campaign bosses as a party, than as individuals, especially when theres no NPCs to take the hits instead of us LOL.