Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Notably, they are also the only mage in this game, even including BLU, PLD, and DRK, to not have a native method of restoring their own MP. If they are to perform to their full versatility above, don't you think curing is something that is supposed to be done sparingly?

Mystic Boon?

Personally I still play it to kill and drive off the mobs, much like Besieged, although I also realize that other people don't view Campaign that way and go for max exp values.

This is pretty much my goal in campaign. I hate sitting there and watching Beastmen pummel on our forts and wipe out our NPCs. I hate when their general is just standing there, watching as his hoard decimates all who come too close to their defensive position. I hate when the Allied Forces retreat. But it seems I'm the only one who even cares about that since everyone else is just out to get their EXP. It's a shame that there isn't a way to boost exp while trying to win the fight, instead of people pulling a single mob to the farthest corner of a zone to sit there whacking it for an hour all by themselves.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Personally I still play it to kill and drive off the mobs, much like Besieged, although I also realize that other people don't view Campaign that way and go for max exp values

It does bug me a little when you're BLM/WHM, trying to hard get hate so you can get damage and heal it for more points, and someone instantly drops overcures on you the moment your HP goes down to 90%, not even really enough to justify a Drain.

I did somewhat cover the reasons why anybody would do that earlier up. People might do it to intentionally take hate from you. It is interesting, in Campaign, people can behave in ways that may seem helpful, but their motives for doing so aren't exactly pure. Watch people sometimes and it suddenly becomes clear that some people actually fight over who tanks. The easiest way to do that is to get a headstart on the mob, which happens to coincides with keeping mobs off the fort. Then again, who really cares about reasons for doing things?

So excuse me if I enjoy helping people and despise those who don't even give a 2nd thought about others' enjoyment

I've been a RDM since pre-CoP. "Others" have dictated how I am to enjoy how I play my job long enough. It's about time a method for me to dictate how "I" want to enjoy my job has come around.

[Nuriko]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Watch people sometimes and it suddenly becomes clear that some people actually fight over who tanks.

I really hate that these days, as I'm either THF/DNC or WHM/THF ... SA is a major portion of my damage output and/or MP recovery, and it's hard to do when the mob is likely to just turn any second. Let's not even mention the orcs and their Counter ability! I died one day from a countered Triple Attack, all 3 hits.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I really hate that these days, as I'm either THF/DNC or WHM/THF ... SA is a major portion of my damage output and/or MP recovery, and it's hard to do when the mob is likely to just turn any second. Let's not even mention the orcs and their Counter ability! I died one day from a countered Triple Attack, all 3 hits.

Now that's one I never thought of...

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

My biggest issue is that, as a Thf, Trick Attack is completely useless since I only get the bonus from someone in the same party/alliance. Hopefully Unions will fix that, as well as the Accomp/Collab restrictions.

[Elwynn]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Mystic Boon?

The problem for BLM is that if you want to TP for MP, you can use clubs, but then you can't use any elemental staves, because switching weapons wipes out your TP.

The only staff WS that gives you MP is Spirit Taker, which requires 215 staff skill. I had a hard enough time grinding up my staff skill on WHM, with plenty of defensive buffs, and a few hours in Boyahda Tree after 210 or so. I can't imagine trying to do that as BLM main, with only an E in enhancing for /WHM buffs, and a lack of melee gear options.

Even with Spirit Taker, you still can't switch staves around, so in campaign I generally stick to Aquilo's and avoid Aero spells. It also means I have basically zero chance of landing Silence on a Divine Inspirer.

[Evion]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

I hope this brings a little more party aspect to campaign. I'm sick of soloing in campaign and spending all my time dead... decent DRK Melee = Hate

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

The problem for BLM is that if you want to TP for MP, you can use clubs, but then you can't use any elemental staves, because switching weapons wipes out your TP.

The only staff WS that gives you MP is Spirit Taker, which requires 215 staff skill. I had a hard enough time grinding up my staff skill on WHM, with plenty of defensive buffs, and a few hours in Boyahda Tree after 210 or so. I can't imagine trying to do that as BLM main, with only an E in enhancing for /WHM buffs, and a lack of melee gear options.

Even with Spirit Taker, you still can't switch staves around, so in campaign I generally stick to Aquilo's and avoid Aero spells. It also means I have basically zero chance of landing Silence on a Divine Inspirer.

He was talking about Whm. Who get a Whm exclusive Club WS that restores MP similar to the way Spirit Taker works. Not once was it said that Whm should use staves or Blm should use clubs. Infact I repeatedly stated that Blm was one of the few job who really and truly does get screwed over in campaign due to it's sheer lack of melee capabilities. But Whm doesn't have that issue. Whm's are one of the stronger Meleeing mages and even have a WS native to their best weapon type that can restore their MP regardless of whether or not the target has MP naturally. So where he comments that Whm is the only class without a natural, native MP restoration ability, I point out Mystic Boon, which does exactly that.

Whm and Rdm are the last jobs who have anything to complain about in campaign, assuming they're properly prepared for it.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Whm and Rdm are the last jobs who have anything to complain about in campaign, assuming they're properly prepared for it.

Mystic Boon is a WS not many people have access to (yet). I find that deplorable personally, since if you don't have your Nyzul WSs yet, you should actively be working towards getting them. But barring that, they don't have a way to regenerate MP that simply comes level progressed.

I am merely saying that, for the purpose of Campaign, or any other comparable occasion, it is not in WHM's job design (or in WHM's best interest) to only be tabbing around looking for who needs to be cured. If everybody who comes at least has some degree of self-sufficient, it can be reserved for something like emergency cures. Since, as well know, some people are all about what jobs were meant to do, like how Ninjas are supposed to be deadly assassins who strike from the shadows and would never, ever try to get an enemy's attention.

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Plenty of Whms can get Mystic Boon, as Nyzul is an especially casual event. While I'll admit, getting random pickups for climbs can be tough, it's still doable. Especially if you offer free lots on gear drops from NMs/Bosses. Though a static *is* the way to go.

And I was never one to say how people should or shouldn't act during campaign outside of complaining about pricks who do nothing but solo a single mob for an hour in some god forsaken corner of the zone. Hell, I personally feel that if a Whm or Rdm isn't doing everything and anything they can in campaign, *especially* meleeing, then they shouldn't even bother.

[Armando]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Personally I still play it to kill and drive off the mobs, much like Besieged, although I also realize that other people don't view Campaign that way and go for max exp values.

Then bitch and whine when the beastmen take over the zones.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. If I'm gonna kill a mob I might as well pull one that's trying to beat on our fortification rather than join one that already has 5 people on it. If I pull it near where other people are fighting, usually at least one person will migrate over to mine and give me a hand.

P.S. I love following RDMs in Campaign, so many of them have Death Blossom and I can leech off them to make Light Skillchains with Atonement.

[Akashimo]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

P.S. I love following RDMs in Campaign, so many of them have Death Blossom and I can leech off them to make Light Skillchains with Atonement.

Heh, I can go eitherway on those ws^^

But its more fun going after a yagudo then go "Oh shit I pulled the sam nm.... damn I'm gonna die.... wait ppl are coming to kill it cause its not yellow, i might live!" 10 minutes later, Mithra paladin eating dirt, "...-.- Damn 2 hour and it strips my shield off every time"

[Malacite]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

There you go. You get XP for taking damage, and you get XP for healing damage. Being a lolBLMtank for as long as possible without dying is the best way for a BLM to get XP in campaign. Which is stupid, but that's why I gave up and got Spirit Taker so I could at least melee for a chance at more MP.

Agreed, but I don't see SE buffing up HP healed and Magic Damage to 20% like they ought to. Like so many other things in this game these days, Campaign is heavily skewed towards melee.

[Ziero]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Increasing the healing cap would still boost melees exp in campaign thanks to /Dnc. Healing caps are only a problem to Whm and Rdm who do nothing but heal. And if all you're going to do is spam cure, you should get reduced XP. Magic damage caps on the other hand should be on par with melee damage though, there's no reason to differentiate between the two. And it's because of this difference that Blm, Sch and Smn get screwed. Plus, pet based dmg should be increased. Campaign is very hard to balance, and mages have abilities that are very easily abused.

[Ketaru]

Re: Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

Magic damage caps on the other hand should be on par with melee damage though, there's no reason to differentiate between the two. And it's because of this difference that Blm, Sch and Smn get screwed. Plus, pet based dmg should be increased. Campaign is very hard to balance, and mages have abilities that are very easily abused.

I don't know about raising the caps, but the % from magic damage should be increased. These jobs are more limited by their reliance on MP to deal damage. And nuking is very MP-intensive. I don't think it can really be abused because, by nuking, you still have to contend with being attacked, unlike self-buffing.

As for pet jobs, I don't know. I do very well on BST, almost as well as my RDM actually, I believe. And I hear PUP does very well for itself in Campaign, with their automaton being less reliant on MP along with being able to deal both physical and magical damage between the master and the pet. But you probably really mean SMN in this case.

EDIT: Although, to be honest, even melee would still benefit from having higher magic % damage in their EXP. Most obviously don't do it, but for example, I suspect a THF could alternate Dancing Edge (Evisceration providing it will close a skillchain) and Gust Slash/Cyclone and still get the physical damage cap while adding some magic damage to his EXP.