Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

[Raydeus]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

New Avatars?

After alllll this time and FF14 announce, I think those new avatar will be one of those things that never really happened.

And, if they ever do come out, I think they will be something no well planned and when will endup being useless.

Or as I always say, too little too late. But that's SE's philosophy with XI, lets just hope they get better at it on XIV.



Having new missions will be nice, and Xarcabard (or something) campaign sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun.

Other than that the only thing I'd like to see is SE changing Homam so RDM can use it, but the chances of that happening are the same as those of me winning the Mog bonanza.

[Ketaru]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Half the SMNs in the game will never be happy until they're all "air strike" like Rydia or Yuna, though. I'll tell you right now that is never going to happen. Astral Flow is the closest you'll ever get on that one.

Is that even the correct thing to say about SMNs from other games? In other Final Fantasy games, they often seemed like little more than glorified BLMs whose damage was no worse from being spread out across multiple enemies. When compared with the "secondary" traits of SMNs (Yuna or Dagger/Eiko was healer, Rydia as a nuker/crowd control), summons often seemed almost like wastes of MP you use when you just wanted to see something neat. Rydia was just a precious case of this especially in the DS release where I gave her the BRD augment. Henceforth, she was the party's BRD and I almost never used summons. Worse, in X, aeons start off strong, then just end up being pawns to take damage in place of the party later on.

[Firewind]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Zenith crown? I don't know if you do sky. I used that for a while.

I've been interested in sky if only for the novelty of being able to explore that place more. I did get invited to join a Sky LS that was forming since they have a grand total of one White Mage but I didn't really have much confidence in the shell holder. Every time I asked "When are the runs taking place?" I would get a "I don't know I haven't decided yet" or "When everyone is available to so one.". Yeah...

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

you're going to revert to this attitude and direct it toward a job that's already clearly getting steady updates?

The "steady updates" that Summoner has been getting is like rearranging chairs on the Titanic . . . except it's already underwater . . . and the chairs wouldn't need to be rearranged in the first place had the ship not sunk and made a mess of everything. I mean, have they even fixed that whole Amnesia thing yet? All of the Summoner upddates were just trying to work around a flawed design to achieve desired results rather than rework the design itself. I've said it before myriad times, but if Blood Pacts were Spells instead of Job Abilities, very few of the things that they fixed (or need to fix) would have been problems in the first place.

Half the SMNs in the game will never be happy until they're all "air strike" like Rydia or Yuna, though. I'll tell you right now that is never going to happen. Astral Flow is the closest you'll ever get on that one.

Which is why, given no Corsair 2-Hour reset and a level below 70, a Summoner is only any good to people once every two hours. You remember that whole Astral Burning thing that's going on?

We all are aware of the implausibility of a Rydia-styled system here, but Rydia paid massive amounts of MP to make that happen. Summoners in FFXI, however . . . pay absurd amounts of perpetuation for lolAvatarMelee, MP that many people argue is better spent playing the MP/WHM role. If anything, having MP just makes Summoner a worse job than Beastamster, Dragoon, and Puppetmaster, because those jobs do not have to pay rent just to keep their pets standing there (heck, they can rest alongside their pets).

[Ketaru]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

If anything, having MP just makes Summoner a worse job than Beastamster, Dragoon, and Puppetmaster, because those jobs do not have to pay rent just to keep their pets standing there (heck, they can rest alongside their pets).

LifedrinkerLars costs 4-5K per call, and 12 pet food zetas cost around 7K...much less if you have somebody you know who is nice even to craft them for you but....just throwing that out there. Never mistaken these things for being cheap.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

LifedrinkerLars costs 4-5K per call, and 12 pet food zetas cost around 7K...much less if you have somebody you know who is nice even to craft them for you but....just throwing that out there. Never mistaken these things for being cheap.

just to keep their pets standing there

Actually, come to think about it, jug pets don't last forever, so I guess it would be rent. My bad. =/

[Armando]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Which is why, given no Corsair 2-Hour reset and a level below 70, a Summoner is only any good to people once every two hours.

You're like Lord Hyperbole or something.

You remember that whole Astral Burning thing that's going on?

A clear non-sequitur here either. I could just as easily say "Remember that whole arrowburn thing?" Or, hell, how about KRT "Monkburns" back in the day? There isn't a direct correlation between an "extremist" levelling strategy that involves 4+ of the same job, and the job's viability in a standard party.

That aside, I should probably stop checking these threads altogether.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

A clear non-sequitur here either. I could just as easily say "Remember that whole arrowburn thing?" Or, hell, how about KRT "Monkburns" back in the day? There isn't a direct correlation between an "extremist" levelling strategy that involves 4+ of the same job, and the job's viability in a standard party.

The point wasn't so much that it was a burn party with Summoners so much as a burn party that revolved around the use of their 2-Hour. It's a whole other level of absurdity that they can do this only once every two hours and still make good XP/hour from it. Not that I criticize anybody that actually does it, though; they kind of need an alternative from the whole MP/WHM thing, but surely S-E could find a way to give them a less extreme alternative?

That aside, I should probably stop checking these threads altogether.

Meh, this thread is just getting started. The ones that hit 10 pages in the first hour that are the ones worth avoiding.

[Armando]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

The point wasn't so much that it was a burn party with Summoners so much as a burn party that revolved around the use of their 2-Hour. It's a whole other level of absurdity that they can do this only once every two hours and still make good XP/hour from it.

And it still has nothing to do with their current status. Even if SMNs were considered a great addition to any party, they would still gather for Astral Burns if it would result in noticeably more EXP for them (and let's face it, it probably would, from what I've read.) It's only natural that they'd do it; assuming you can pull it off, you'd be silly not to. It doesn't indicate that there's a problem with SMN's normal functionality, even if there is one. It only indicates that their 2-hour is exploitable since it doesn't have damage reduction against multiple targets.

[Malacite]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Airstrike sounds about right.

Rydia pretty much raped nearly every standard mob with 1 casting of Bahamut, and let's not even get into the bullshit that was KotR, Eden or The Magus Sisters >.>

I wouldn't be surprised if they powered SMN's DD ability up in FF XIV though since they said there will be more occasions for fighting multiple mobs. For FFXI though, honestly I'd just be happy if SMN could reasonably DD with their pacts or avatar melee. It just feels like before 70 (and even after 70) SMN gets far less bang for it's MP than BLM or SCH. And that goes for both buffs and attack BPs.

[Feba]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

LifedrinkerLars costs 4-5K per call, and 12 pet food zetas cost around 7K...

NIN and RNG pretty much prove that gil cost isn't important, just how quickly you're allowed to throw that gil at enemies.

If SMN could spend a few thousand gil for an 'extra' MP tank that would only be used for perp costs, but would last them 10-30 minutes (depending on the avatar's perp cost and whatever equipment they have on, etc.), I promise you most of them would happily use it.

Gil is less valuable than MP, in a lot of ways. Hell, if THF were given Giltoss that was on the same level of silliness as past FFs, it's not unthinkable that it would be quite used.

[Guppy]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Yigit and Goliard aren't available to me due to not having an Assault/Nyzul perma and the Walmart urban will take a long time to get with just getting IS from beseiged.

You don't need to have Nyzul floors leveled to get Goliard, you can go with one of the Whitegate pick-up parties on somebody else's Runic Disc. It might take a while though, floor 100 pick-ups aren't that common.

Quite a bit of patience and luck is needed, if you don't have your own disc. It could easily take a few dozen runs before you get your Goliard Hat, and that's assuming there's not much lotting competition (In my experience usually not too much, Nyzul pick-up groups tends to be melee-heavy).

[Ziero]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

The point wasn't so much that it was a burn party with Summoners so much as a burn party that revolved around the use of their 2-Hour. It's a whole other level of absurdity that they can do this only once every two hours and still make good XP/hour from it. Not that I criticize anybody that actually does it, though; they kind of need an alternative from the whole MP/WHM thing, but surely S-E could find a way to give them a less extreme alternative?

As Armando pointed out, that strategy proves nothing but the fact why Smn's 2 hour is so powerful. They can do just fine in standard parties, but they are the only class that can unleash an AoE attack on an unlimited amount of mobs and not have the damaged diminished over the crowd. While the 70+ BPs are technically stronger single target attacks, that's their limiting feature. But their 2 hour is always used best on multiple mobs. Which is why Astral Burns exist.

NIN and RNG pretty much prove that gil cost isn't important, just how quickly you're allowed to throw that gil at enemies.

If SMN could spend a few thousand gil for an 'extra' MP tank that would only be used for perp costs, but would last them 10-30 minutes (depending on the avatar's perp cost and whatever equipment they have on, etc.), I promise you most of them would happily use it.

Gil is less valuable than MP, in a lot of ways. Hell, if THF were given Giltoss that was on the same level of silliness as past FFs, it's not unthinkable that it would be quite used.

Smns could very easily carry Hi-ether tanks with them where ever they go and spam the crap out of them to keep MP up. But for normal, non-mission/event situations, they don't. So your example is pretty much completely off.

And as a Thf, I can assure you if I had a Gil Toss JA, unless it did absurd amounts of Dmg for less then the cost of a chocobo rental, it would not be used. Gil may not be an issue to the top tier less then 10% playerbase with the best of the best in gear, but for an average run of the mill player, making cash has always been a hurdle to climb over. Nins, Rngs, Cors and to an extent Bsts have always been seen as expensive jobs that throw money at the mobs, and as such can be difficult to play effectively unless you are good at making money. Back when Rng were all the rage, many gimps got by with the cheapest of cheap ammo and weapons, but could still work well because the damage calculations were still in their favor. Now if you try and cheap out on Rng you will suck, visibly. Because money *is* an issue.

[Tokitung]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

Here is my wish list:

1. Fix Campaign - They've jacked with it so much, I don't even touch it anymore cause I can level sync and do training regimes for better exp. Also, give us our final medal ranks and finish the AN Armor set (body, can I have it?)

2. Finish WotG - Good god, finish it already! SE put out a mini-expansion before finishing this crap, some on! Aslo, give us a freakin' reward for the end. You've already given us R/EX Rings x2, Earrings x2, and Body for completing other expansions, why not a Neck/Waist/Back piece?

3. Job Updates -

Nin - Give them something, anything for gods sake. They have no natural JAs, can only merit one (zomg Sange -.-), the rest of their merits go to either Subtle Blow or San spells. Give them something ninja like, like I don't know, a THROWING WS. Make ammo affordable so Nin/Rng wasn't so expensive? Mijin Gakure enhancement with either you are just weakened or able to RR after?

Smn - Give them their extra avatars they've been begging for. Aslo, please, DEFINE Smn better. Jack of all trades crap is bull shit. Give them a better way to truely define their direction without others going "lolSmn DD in exp?"

Blm - Give them something to allow them to exp in parties better 50+.

Pup (yea, I know) - Would be actually really awesome, if only you allowed the player to control what the hell their puppet does.

Bst - Give Bst some more party friend abilities, or allow for them to control what TP move their pets do. They made pets more party friendly to exp, why not to the damage element?

Rng - GIVE US MOAR POWWWAAAAA!!!!! Just cause RNg is that awesome ^^

4. FoV NMs - Give us a freakin' clue and make this worth it. Could be so good, yet 90% is trash.

5. MMM - FIX IT NOW! Give us our marbles back or reduce the charge for some of the runes. Also, add a lot of new content, I got bored with it after I had most runes but drop rates sucked. 5k marbles down the drain, whoo.

6. Fellow NPC - For the love of god, ALLOW THEM IN ToA AREAS! Wanna be even nicer? Allow them into BC fights with us. Really, how would this hurt things? You can't control what the hell they do so it's not so much a "strategy". Many people use two accounts or more to do BCs by themselves anyways of find ways to solo them, so how would this hurt?

7. End Game Equipment Options (mostly Weapons) - Come on, for the last 6 years the best Rng bow has been the E/V-Bow (outside of relic.) Yea, relic is the "ultimate weapon" for Rng, but your telling me that there is no other bows out there other than E/V/S-Bows?

8. Merits - Give us the ability to have no limit in the weapon portion of Combat merits. I can understand Parry/Evade/Shield/Guard. But why Weapons? Look at how many have multiple 75 jobs, but they can only pimp out two in weapons? I have 5 75 jobs with many others otw, I would love to be able to merit Axe for Bst, Sword for Blu, or hell just not have to split my last 12 merits between H2H and GK (Archery 8/8.)

Come on SE, you've given tons of love to the newer player base with all the exp, FoV, Level Sync, and other changes. Give your 75s some love and remove some of the BS limits you placed long ago.

[Electricity Gone Human]

Re: Next Version Update Scheduled for Late July! (06/08/2009)

HELL YES! Time for my wishlist. *inhales deeply*

- GIVE ME ENDGAME USE FOR DANCER ALREADY. Make timers separate on Waltzes, for crying out loud. ALSO GIVE DANCER HECATOMB AND SKADI ALREADY. A year of no endgame gear for this job other than Dynamis, ZNM and Nyzul? Goddamn it SE, no job should suffer this much...OH AND GIVE SCHOLAR ZENITH AND MORRIGAN'S TOO. What would a Morrigan's Robe and Zenith Mitts hurt on SCH? Resident SCHs might have a reason, but I'm just tired of WotG jobs, especially DNC in terms of usage, getting jack shit. At least SCH has demand. Fuck Bart's Knife.

- GIVE NINJA AN UN-GIMPING ALREADY. Is it even preferred for endgame anymore these days, aside from NIN/DRK?

- WHERE ARE THOSE NEW AVATARS, SE?! GIVE 'EM OUT ALREADY. YOU'RE BEHIND SCHEDULE! :|

- GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO RAID BEASTMEN CONTROLLED ZONES IN CAMPAIGN ALREADY. Windurst is already under siege on Leviathan, and that's pretty pathetic.

- GIVE ME A REASON TO DO LIMBUS ALREADY. Oh wait, that's more of a personal issue. disregard this.

- Yay Northlands and more Campaign Ranks! SQUEEEEEEEEEE

So yeah, word of the day: "Already." Mostly because most of this shit needs to be done already.