Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

All 20 jobs would be a bit of a stretch for sure, but I was hoping at least 5 or more?

They've done it before, and their exact words IIRC from an interview posted @ JP button was that "our focus for 2009 is make every job fun" and that they'd be focusing on job updates. It's a cool update for RDM all the same, but when you compare it to the WHM update...

I think it's more a matter of bad timing on SE's part. Had we seen this first, and then the WHM update I think we'd all be reacting a little differently. And I was really, really hoping for those new wyvern breaths =/ (or god forbid a fix to BLM) Anyway, if you want to see drama check out BG... the Q_Q over there is palpable.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Because it's not that great of an update. I'm glad some of you seem to be pleased with it, but it's really not what I want to see RDM evolve into. And I think some people are overestimating its usefulness at endgame, on HNMs, in Dynamis, in Einherjar, which are things that I do.

BG is an endgame community for sure, and the endgame community is sitting here like ... WTF!?! I have strong doubts that endgame RDM is changing one bit from this.

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Was rdm endgame that bad off? This is an honest question and not a rhetorical one.

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

It seems like it will work like Steps, but lets just hope the effect window lasts longer as it isn't rare for me to lose Steps when casting and doing other things.

I don't think it'll work like a step except for the resistance down part. It'd be stupid if you could smack the mob once and leave it weak to an element for any significant amount of time.

As to the situations I'm normally meleeing in, I wonder how Enspell IIs are going to pan out. They would basically need to do 50 damage per hit or more to make up for the initial attacks only business. I wonder if initial attacks only applies to the second hit when dual wielding. Not that I usually /nin for melee, but I wish this was more compatible with the sexy joy/justice combo I love so much. I wonder if wielding a single e.sword, blau or hornetneedle will become preferable to joytoy after this. I guess it might be time to start camping Bune again.

The way I see it, Enspell II and WHM's Enlightga must be pretty strong; the "first hit only" rule smells like a Kraken Club deterrent if you ask me. I doubt the restriction applies to Dual Wield; DW's Delay reduction when subbed isn't big enough to justify cutting the effective power of the Enspells in half.

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Ah, I suppose. Decent added effect damage on jobs that can use kclub could be abusive. Probably not as powerful as Blood Weapon Souleater kclub but a rdm or whm could do it more than every 2 hours and live. Still bummed that it knocks my joytoy down a notch in uberness but at least it'll still be hot on pld.

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Joyeuse still has like the best DPS of any non-relic/mythic sword though, and the extra TP is always beneficial. I'm sure it'll still kick ass.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I don't really think RDM needs to change in endgame. If they wanted RDMs to efeeble gods, HNMs and such well, they would have done so a long, long time again. Those mobs are supposed to be resistant.

Jobs shift in role at endgame. PLDs aren't the first guy I got to for kiting in general situations, but its general for them to do it here. CORs like to melee in addition to buffing, but melee goes out the window for HNMs and a mage sub sometimes becomes necessary in spots. RDMs are looked upon more for support and crowd control than thier specialization.

The jobs that need to be tweaked for endgame are the ones not allowed into these little reindeer games to start with - BST, PUP, BLU and DNC spring to mind. RDM doesn't need endgame tweaks, they're already more than welcome in it.

Aside regarding SMN: I knew my share of good ones back on Titan. I certainly remember Shirai from there and also from here on DiV. I've seen Leviathan alone do some pretty sick things.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Was rdm endgame that bad off? This is an honest question and not a rhetorical one.

No, it wasn't. But I would like to be able to use all that gear I spent tons of time and gil collecting so that my enfeebles don't suck, instead of relying on a job ability from my SUB JOB in order to land it.

[hexx]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I don't really think RDM needs to change in endgame. If they wanted RDMs to efeeble gods, HNMs and such well, they would have done so a long, long time again. Those mobs are supposed to be resistant.

Jobs shift in role at endgame. PLDs aren't the first guy I got to for kiting in general situations, but its general for them to do it here. CORs like to melee in addition to buffing, but melee goes out the window for HNMs and a mage sub sometimes becomes necessary in spots. RDMs are looked upon more for support and crowd control than thier specialization.

The jobs that need to be tweaked for endgame are the ones not allowed into these little reindeer games to start with - BST, PUP, BLU and DNC spring to mind. RDM doesn't need endgame tweaks, they're already more than welcome in it.

Aside regarding SMN: I knew my share of good ones back on Titan. I certainly remember Shirai from there and also from here on DiV. I've seen Leviathan alone do some pretty sick things.

I can vouch for Shirai, hes in my Dynamis LS (curse all you Titan peeps, hes going back to that server in a few weeks /cry)

Asides from that yeah, RDM already does a good job in the roles it has. This update, altho decent, doesn't do too much to encourage more meleeing on a RDMs part. Hence the reason why I never touch RDM anymore.

[Vyuru]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

They've done it before, and their exact words IIRC from an interview posted @ JP button was that "our focus for 2009 is make every job fun" and that they'd be focusing on job updates.

Well, 2009 is young yet and there are gong to be a few more updates to come. 3/20 of the jobs getting an update isn't a bad start. Too I doubt that all jobs will get an update, I will be greatly surprised if Samurai for instance were to see one.

Personally I find all this stuff about Rdm melee in endgame to be silly, for the most part. Is it possible that you'll be able to pull off some fancy Enspell II so that the potency of your Paralyze for instance actually sticks and procs often? Yeah it is. On the other hand, I would be guessing that most of the harder mobs that you would want to be able to enfeeble are also the harder mobs that people don't want to be letting someone with a fairly low skill rating in their weapon melee with, for that event. That is mostly judging by what people say for not wanting to let say, Pup, or some other job into some of these fights.

To say the least, it'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

[Raydeus]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I don't think it'll work like a step except for the resistance down part. It'd be stupid if you could smack the mob once and leave it weak to an element for any significant amount of time.

Yeah the elemental weakness duration will probably be on the lines of Ninjutsu, but the "Each successive activation increases elemental damage strength up to a predetermined limit" part sounds like the way steps work to me.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I dunno, seems to me RDM could stand for some buffing to their enfeebles but other than that the job's fine I'd say. It really is pretty stupid that you need 300+ skill just to have a chance at landing a spell on an end game NM.

Yes I agree that some mobs should be immune or highly resistant to some enfeebles, but there's a line that needs to be drawn.

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

334 skill ^^/

Actually that's not even that hard. Capped skill + torque + tabard + earring is 301. Doesn't even require merits or Duelist's Chapeau.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Roughly the same here. And yet, all that skill and I can't land Slow 2 on Khimaira without ES. Stupid!

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I have the same problem but Khim has a strong lightning affinity so it kinda makes sense. Para 2 seems not too bad to stick at least on the Nyzul version.

---------- Post added at 09:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:51 PM ----------

Wait, no. Earth > lightning so that doesn't make sense. /shrug