Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

[Aksannyi]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I highly doubt anyone in my LS carries a sword with them when they head to a camp, let alone full melee gear. I sure as hell don't. Who has room? And even if I had the room, what's the point? I'm not gonna hit the mob. I bring a club with me on WHM. You know why? I cure in it, it's called Templar Mace. But there's not a sword out there on RDM that I swap in for spellcasting, so I certainly don't bother to carry one with me.

If they asked, well, I'd have to melee with my staff skill that I don't have naturally. Lawl.

I will stand right here and say that if it does indeed prove to be worthwhile, as in an actual noticeable change in resistance, then I would be willing to change strategies to allow RDMs to melee, when the situation calls for it. I think my LS would also be willing to adjust strategies in some cases. With Auspice it might actually be all right to have the RDM feed TP to the mob. Who knows?

We'll see.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

As asinine as SE is, the fact that they're giving us this update after a jillion years means there must be SOME merit (pun intended?) to it.

I'm trying to discern it before the RETARDED RDM melees come out Dual Wielding Joyeuse and Justice with a SH and claiming all that is righteous in the name of O-Hats, By Altana, we'll melee these mobs.

[Kafeen]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Oh god. More melee RDMs inc.

These look like they'll be nice for soloing. For composure, lengthening recast time isn't really an issue if you only need to buff yourself but if you need to buff a whole party its not going to help.

[Ellipses]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I think the SMN update notes are missing something. Hopefully the full update notes will come out later, where you can increase/decrease $avatar_thing at the expense of $stuff.

Stances fix everything!

(I really don't mind the trend at all.)

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I don't think keeping a Refresh/Haste cycle is going to be very friendly under "Composure". Well a Refresh/Haste Cycle longer than myself and someone else.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

The SMN update looked OK, it was what I expected for a pet job update. Baby step fixes.

The RDM update seems interesting enough, it is a melee update, to be sure. I don't know if I'd completely write it off for all situations, though. Prolonged fights and instances with fodder mobs would make these new Enspells worthwhile so long as other mages are nuking along WITH the RDM.

Dunno if this means anything to QD, though. This isn't casting a spell on a mob, but a proc effect, which we don't effect. Also when we QD the NIN enfeebs, it actually serves to weaken the secondary effect of elemental debuffs. I don't think QD will affect this one at all if that's what Wish was thinking.

[Taskmage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I would absolutely use composure under any circumstance I would have been meleeing anyway because if I had to worry about refresh and haste recasts I wouldn't be meleeing anyway. I just wonder if that accuracy bonus is sufficient to forego sushi on T+ stuff.

Enspell IIs yay, additional effect meh? Sortof like Wish was saying in the other thread, if we can hit something reliably with a sword we shouldn't have any trouble landing a spell on it and if we were going to have trouble landing spells on it we probably shouldn't be in its face. Also, do I read correctly that Enspell IIs only proc once per attack round? This makes joy and justice sad pandas.

Anyway, as a whole the update gets a subdued yay from me. Doesn't look entirely useless, I got the Enspell IIs I've been asking for and hell at least it's an update. It's not like we were broken to begin with.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

W. I. N.

EDIT: This thread is so full of negative freaking nancies. It was practically predictable that the day the RDM Update would bring about the end of the world for people . . .

[Karinya]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I guess I wasn't really expecting the RDM update to be a melee-oriented one. I guess I was expecting something to help me on the backline, where I feel I excel.

Why would you expect help with something you already excel at? WHM got some help to cures precisely because they *don't* excel at them right now; any fool with MP is just as good.

I think SE has decided that perfectly reliable enfeebles on gods would make them, well, ungodlike. Struggling to land them is how an endgame encounter is supposed to work. Do you see BLMs bitching that some of their nukes are resisted? (And those nukes cost a hell of a lot more than even Tier 2 enfeebles.)

I mean, I don't even have full enfeebling or job-specific merits or all (relevant) HQ staves yet and I can already enfeeble gods, jailers, Dynamis and Limbus bosses, and of course non-boss mobs in all those areas and assault/nyzul hardly ever resist. It stands to reason someone who *is* using all the existing tools will do even better, which means they will make a big difference.

And that's not even counting Stun - a very powerful enfeeble, and RDM is the only one who can fix that little duration vs. recast problem.

Well who knows, if the resistance thing works kind of like Ancient Magic, well, that might be pretty badass, but it's gonna take a lot of convincing before we just start bringing RDMs to Enspell burn Khim, lol.

But RDMs are already valuable and useful at HNM fights. Why would SE improve them there? That would make no sense. 2 handers weren't improved because they excelled, they were improved because they *didn't* excel, because DW was leaving them in the dust. It would have been dumb for that update to have improved DW instead, or even in addition.

The improvement is aimed at solo and small-group content - FoV, MMM, Campaign, etc. - where I think it will be quite welcome (yes, it interferes with /nin, but you don't always have to be /nin). Alliance and bigger content already has lots of uses for RDM. And yes, DD isn't generally one of them, but if you want to DD, level a DD job.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Also, just to point out, I called the stance melee buff/casting penalty thing months ago. This is in-line with RNG's Velocity Shot more than Hasso or Seigan, though.

But, there might be a way around it.

/SCH

As I've said in the past, the Celerity and Alacrity Stratagems halve casting times and the subsequent recast timer of the spell just cast. So at 60+ a RDM/SCH would have two charges to use for four spells, usually the average buff cycle anyway. Light Arts would lower recasts of Haste and Refresh by 10% just by nature.

Celerity and Alacrity are available at 50+ under sub, though only with one charge at four minute recast at that point, I think. Also, in accordance with the WHM update, Reraise is now level 35 for SCH, so at 70+, RDM would also have that and all the B+ skills and buffs/penalties that come with using Arts.

I see what you're doing there, SE.

Only real downside is no Erase and Curaga stuff.

[Mhurron]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

For composure, lengthening recast time isn't really an issue

Unless you need to cast Utsusemi when your shadows are gone. Or Stoneskin. Or Bind. Or cure when the shit hits the fan.

You're right, as long as you're not casting anything, Composure would cause no problems. It's just a self cast slow, and we all know what few problems that causes.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

I don't think QD will affect this one at all if that's what Wish was thinking.

Pairing with quickdraw:
Using Enspell II to make it weaker so that QD does more damage (?). Am I right in that assumption?

[Armando]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

At least now we know what that "adds Enlight to initial attacks" bit was all about in the WHM update info.

I'm not a RDM but this looks like a rather good update for those that were itching to draw their weapons. More Acc and longer self-buff duration is always good. Even if Enspells II only proc on initial attacks, if they power up to do enough damage, it could still be worth it. However, I don't think RDM/NIN soloists will be using Composure, as the increased Utsusemi recasts could really fuck them over.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

Pairing with quickdraw:
Using Enspell II to make it weaker so that QD does more damage (?). Am I right in that assumption?

Doubt it, I think it would just prevent the damage from being resisted. QD damage is fixed without MAB and DMG tweaks to boost it.

[Gobo]

Re: Job Adjustments and Additions Part II (03/30/2009)

RDM update notes are silly and unless the damage are ZOMG from enspells and the resistance down lasts longer than ninjitsu, really won't make up for the fact they probably will work better on a Ceremonial Dagger as opposed to a Joytoy or Justice Sword.

SMN are slightly more interesting. The increase in range makes it easier to send an avatar towards a mob, fire off the ward and hit everyone. Normally it takes some positioning and pathing luck to do that. Yay for Hastega overwritting slow i guess, but why show a SMN using it against Spider Web. White magic haste can't overwrite that. Boost to Merit BPs, they already do near 1k fully merited, so a boost in damage isn't a bad thing.