Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

[eticket109]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Welp... as far as I can tell, all six from my ls got perma'ed after all.

I'd say about 30% or so of the names I know on the server are back. That's about how I figured it would shake out.

It sucks they're gone but it sucks more they felt like cheating in the first place.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

That's what I have been saying in previous posts. I know very well that there are folks who didn't even get temp banned (all they got were emails saying don't do this again), and yet they not only duplicated nyzul armor, but salvage gear as well (not sure if they abused it with sandworm). Then there are the folks who weren't directly involved in duping nor did they get stuff from duping (unless you count salvage cells) like you described above, and they were perma-banned for a first time offense (though I will admit I don't know if this was indeed their first offense if we consider all possible infractions leading up to this point; I'm just guessing based on how long I've known them).

But despite my complaints, everyone simply assumed that I was whining and crying about my suspension. I suppose I would have been pretty giddy about the bans myself if I were on the other side of the equation. Honestly, we all should have been perma-banned. (Though I would guess they did not do this because most of those people were likely end-gamers with multiple accounts, not just the one that got banned.) Instead, SE is sending mixed signals. In the end, the opportunity to actually voice the concern about the "arbitrariness" of the perma vs temp bans is likely long gone.

Personally, I think its good the way they are doing it. If there are set rules for the bannings, (ex. 1-2 dupes/runs = warning, 3-5 dupes/runs = temp ban, 6+ dupes/runs = perm ban) then the next time people would be like "Ok, I have a clean record. That means I can get 5 dupes/runs in and only get a temp ban. SWEET! FIVE!!" The way it is now people are crapping their pants if they even went in with people that did it and took nothing and that is good. Fear is a good motivator to keep your ass on the right track and SE is instilling that into the masses right now.

And yes, it sucks that people were put up high on a pedestal and now have been knocked off it. Maybe that will teach people a god damn lesson, we are all the same......we are all equal. Just because someone can do something that we can't doesn't mean they are better than us. We are all human.

EDIT: I'd also like to add this from Kaeko's journal:

Because of lack of standard, any punishment SE wants to give for any crime against ToS, regardless of how insignificant the player base may happen to feel about it, is valid.

[Neverslip]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Oh... too bad for the cheaters...

Lvl 74 Dancer seeking an open spot

[Telera]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

At least SE patched the exploit. There's exploits in the Radiance set runs in LotRO, and so far as I know, they're un-patched, and instead of being proactive, they're just asking us all to not do anything that might even smell like exploit, maybe, just in case, sorta, kinda, oh, and to tell on people. It's an exploit to use your Play Dead skill, you know, even though that's like, what it's for, to shed aggro. Oh, and getting out of Mordrambor's LOS, even though the NPC you escort says to, that's an exploit. lawlawlawlawlawl

Some of what Turbine is banning for is obvious, and some of it, I find to be legitimate technique. Much like I figure Souleater-slaying AV is legit. It's a skill you used it, yay. Just because it's not the way they wanted you to run it is a non issue.

But, this particular case, the duping, oh yeah, they deserved every ounce of ban. That's not a 'is this an exploit, maybe?' question, it's blatantly damn obvious. At least SE got patched. Still waiting on those Radiance run patches. I wouldn't want to like, hit Desperate Flight and get banned cuz they didn't want me to, now.

But yeah, MMO companies can ban you just cuz they feel like it, too. That's what you agreed to when you sign on everyday. Right or wrong isn't so much an issue, you did agree to it.

[hpsolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Personally, I think its good the way they are doing it. If there are set rules for the bannings, (ex. 1-2 dupes/runs = warning, 3-5 dupes/runs = temp ban, 6+ dupes/runs = perm ban) then the next time people would be like "Ok, I have a clean record. That means I can get 5 dupes/runs in and only get a temp ban. SWEET! FIVE!!"

Um... that's exactly what's happening. Some of the offenders got a mere warning email. Others got 3-day suspensions. A even others, permanent bans. All were supposedly determined based on the egregiousness of the offense, and also with prior infractions taken into account. And yet we have people who are coming back to the game today with duplicated items. This is the very thing you said you DON'T want to happen, and yet it's already been done. That was why I posted earlier that if they wanted to send a strong message, they should have banned all offenders the same way -- hell, perma-ban all of them (and yes, that would have included me being perma-banned, as well).

I find it truly amusing that more of you aren't outraged by this. Some folks are still up in cloud nine reveling in the fact that SE took action and aren't questioning SE's method on who gets to stay and who does not. Sure, SE is claiming that they "handled" the problem. I guess that's good enough for you regardless of the fact that they clearly failed at removing some of the more egregious offenders. If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

[Mhurron]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Um... that's exactly what's happening. Some of the offenders got a mere warning email. Others got 3-day suspensions. A even others, permanent bans. All were supposedly determined based on the egregiousness of the offense, and also with prior infractions taken into account.

No, that's exactly what is not happening. No one outside of SE knows what the requirements were to only get a warning or what called for a permaban and what fell in between. All that is known is that something happened to those that took part in cheating now and previously.

Since most of the player base can really only be counted on to act like children, this is pretty much how it needs to be handled. I too would simply ban the lot of them, but then again, I doubt I'd run a successful MMO.

[eticket109]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Um... that's exactly what's happening. Some of the offenders got a mere warning email. Others got 3-day suspensions. A even others, permanent bans. All were supposedly determined based on the egregiousness of the offense, and also with prior infractions taken into account. And yet we have people who are coming back to the game today with duplicated items. This is the very thing you said you DON'T want to happen, and yet it's already been done. That was why I posted earlier that if they wanted to send a strong message, they should have banned all offenders the same way -- hell, perma-ban all of them (and yes, that would have included me being perma-banned, as well).

I find it truly amusing that more of you aren't outraged by this. Some folks are still up in cloud nine reveling in the fact that SE took action and aren't questioning SE's method on who gets to stay and who does not. Sure, SE is claiming that they "handled" the problem. I guess that's good enough for you regardless of the fact that they clearly failed at removing some of the more egregious offenders. If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

I agree SE could have been a bit more forthcoming with their methods or something to show there was any consistency. Then again, if the players hadn't cheated then it wouldn't be an issue.

If people aren't comfortable with the fact that SE is a private company that can choose at will when and how they want to deliver or stop their services, they probably should stop at that part of the ToS and move on somewhere else.

The fact they can be so callous and cavalier about it (ask Jei), is exactly why people should have known better in the first place.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Um... that's exactly what's happening. Some of the offenders got a mere warning email. Others got 3-day suspensions. A even others, permanent bans. All were supposedly determined based on the egregiousness of the offense, and also with prior infractions taken into account. And yet we have people who are coming back to the game today with duplicated items. This is the very thing you said you DON'T want to happen, and yet it's already been done. That was why I posted earlier that if they wanted to send a strong message, they should have banned all offenders the same way -- hell, perma-ban all of them (and yes, that would have included me being perma-banned, as well).

I find it truly amusing that more of you aren't outraged by this. Some folks are still up in cloud nine reveling in the fact that SE took action and aren't questioning SE's method on who gets to stay and who does not. Sure, SE is claiming that they "handled" the problem. I guess that's good enough for you regardless of the fact that they clearly failed at removing some of the more egregious offenders. If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

I somewhat agree with some of what you are saying. There were a million different ways that SE could've handled it, but they chose to handle it the way that they did. Technically, they could've gave everybody a warning and then took back their duped stuff they used for duped gear. However sorting all that out would've taken longer than the 3 day suspension since they would've had to go through each account and view exactly how much was duped and what wasn't. I also understand how you said earlier that some people that didn't diserve a slap on the wrist got one, and those that did diserve one, did not. I agree, everybody should've been permabanned or like i said earlier, suspended for x-amount of days (I'd go with 2-4 months.) and while they were gone to delete all their duped gear/items/w.e.

The people that come back with their duped items seem to have gotten off scot-free.... However, its like Zelda when you steal something from the store and try to go back, you are branded as a Thief and your name is changed forever. Since we know who all of them are, they are subject to ridicule from anyone on their server who knows who they are. (Which is now pretty much everyone.) Now that I mention that, they could've just made everybody's title say "Stupor Duper" forever and not be able to change. If you try to have it changed via bard, the bard will say LOLDuped and change it to "Epic Failed"

[aegina]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I find it truly amusing that more of you aren't outraged by this. Some folks are still up in cloud nine reveling in the fact that SE took action and aren't questioning SE's method on who gets to stay and who does not. Sure, SE is claiming that they "handled" the problem. I guess that's good enough for you regardless of the fact that they clearly failed at removing some of the more egregious offenders. If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

Actually, I feel exactly the opposite about it. I'm glad they DON'T permaban everyone right away.

Most people will straighten up after they get caught once or twice. The ones that don't eventually get themselves booted out by being a repeat offender.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Um... that's exactly what's happening. Some of the offenders got a mere warning email. Others got 3-day suspensions. A even others, permanent bans. All were supposedly determined based on the egregiousness of the offense, and also with prior infractions taken into account. And yet we have people who are coming back to the game today with duplicated items. This is the very thing you said you DON'T want to happen, and yet it's already been done. That was why I posted earlier that if they wanted to send a strong message, they should have banned all offenders the same way -- hell, perma-ban all of them (and yes, that would have included me being perma-banned, as well).

I find it truly amusing that more of you aren't outraged by this. Some folks are still up in cloud nine reveling in the fact that SE took action and aren't questioning SE's method on who gets to stay and who does not. Sure, SE is claiming that they "handled" the problem. I guess that's good enough for you regardless of the fact that they clearly failed at removing some of the more egregious offenders. If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

Please show me where SE announced how they decided to hand out punishments. Where they break down how many dupes = warning, temp ban, perm ban. I've never seen such an announcement and if there had been one it would have been posted in our news. So no thats not whats happening. They are making the decisions internally without a set code.

Why should I be outraged? I sign the TOS every time I log in and it states that they can ban me at any time they wish with no prior warning. I understand that and because I understand that I keep my nose as clean as possible.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Starting to think Kaeko and Xerlic are the only among the permabanned that accept the consequences and aren't looking for loopholes or "lack of consistency." They just plain owned up to their mistakes.

What if there isn't a consistency? Maybe they aren't trying to be consistent, but rather, trying to scare the shit out of the temp bans and others with who they permabanned. Apparently reputation, community contribution and "loyalty" aren't factors.

How would one measure loyalty, anyway? I've been playing about five years now. Just because I don't do as much endgame as another player who's been here the same amount of time doesn't make him more loyal. It doesn't give him brownie points with SE. We've played five years, I followed the rules, he didn't - I stay, he goes.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

If this method of handling cheaters is cool with you all, then we've got nothing left to discuss.

Thats the third or fourth time you've said that, and yet you're still here.

Squeenix doesn't NEED to tell you what their standards are, and for those who got perma'd that you feel shouldn't have, how do you know they were 100% clean and innocent before this? You don't. None of us do. Squeenix has the most resourced available to see who has done what and for how long. STF is Santa Claus, and they know who has been naughty and nice. Stop complaining that you feel some people shouldn't have gotten coal when you really don't know Jack about Sh*t, my man.

[hpsolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Actually, I feel exactly the opposite about it. I'm glad they DON'T permaban everyone right away.

Most people will straighten up after they get caught once or twice. The ones that don't eventually get themselves booted out by being a repeat offender.

Then are you saying those that some of those who were been perma-banned for first-time offense should have only been given a suspension? Because there are cases of first-time offenders being perma'd. I'm just trying to figure out what your stance is; earlier you seemed adamant that anyone duping got what they deserved, but now you seem to have changed your mind. Perhaps I'm misreading this post
______________________________

Thats the third or fourth time you've said that, and yet you're still here.

Squeenix doesn't NEED to tell you what their standards are, and for those who got perma'd that you feel shouldn't have, how do you know they were 100% clean and innocent before this? You don't. None of us do. Squeenix has the most resourced available to see who has done what and for how long. STF is Santa Claus, and they know who has been naughty and nice. Stop complaining that you feel some people shouldn't have gotten coal when you really don't know Jack about Sh*t, my man.

LOL, yet another person who automatically assumes I'm whining about getting my suspension. I'm not, and never was, never will. Nor am I complaining that some people got "coal." My complaint is that some of the naughty kids got presents! (In some sense, all of them did as they were allowed to keep their dupes.) Let me clear this up (yet again). I got suspended; I'm fine with that 'cause I can log back in today. I'm just a little sad that OTHER folks got off a little too lightly.

Read the LM-17 thread (page 3) on blue gartr, where Stanislav admits to duping 2 nyzul pieces, and a an Usu. piece from salvage (and his group duped a Morrigan piece), and all he got was an email. When I compare this with other people I know who got perma-banned and have nothing to show for duping (again, not that is an excuse; just for comparison with known exploiters who got off easy). This is why I seriously think they should have just perma-banned all of us. Then the legit players aren't slighted because the cheaters got to keep their dupes; and there would be no complaints among those who were banned since they all got the same sentence for their misdeeds.

[Mhurron]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Then are you saying those that some of those who were been perma-banned for first-time offense should have only been given a suspension?

Ya, they were all fine, upstanding denizens of Vana'diel. SE clearly stated they took action based on their investigation of a shitton of logs, not just for the recent exploit. Quit harping on it like these players never did anything wrong.

[hpsolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Starting to think Kaeko and Xerlic are the only among the permabanned that accept the consequences and aren't looking for loopholes or "lack of consistency." They just plain owned up to their mistakes.

What if there isn't a consistency? Maybe they aren't trying to be consistent, but rather, trying to scare the shit out of the temp bans and others with who they permabanned. Apparently reputation, community contribution and "loyalty" aren't factors.

How would one measure loyalty, anyway? I've been playing about five years now. Just because I don't do as much endgame as another player who's been here the same amount of time doesn't make him more loyal. It doesn't give him brownie points with SE. We've played five years, I followed the rules, he didn't - I stay, he goes.

Agreed; but shouldn't they all go, and not just a random subset of them?