Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

[Aksannyi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I can say that if I were a regular salvage doer and I knew about the exploit, there's a good chance you might see my name on that list. I can't lie. I'd love to stand here and say that if given the opportunity, I'd tell my group to go fuck themselves, but realistically I would struggle to pass on the opportunity to finish pieces faster for the entire group. I totally understand why they did it. Yeah, they're still wrong for doing it, but I understand why they did it.

I'm honestly glad as hell that I didn't know about it until it was patched, because I might be pretty damn upset right now. I wouldn't be bawwwwwing on BG about how I didn't deserve it, but I'd still be pretty fucking messed up over it. I guess I can even understand how some of them are lashing out.

That doesn't mean it's not funny as hell, especially because of the ones who swore adamantly that there would be no bannings and that what they did was not wrong.

Still, I'm not gonna lie. Given the opportunity, it would have been hard to pass up. I can't say for 100% certainty that I'd take the moral high road on this one.

So while you don't see my name on there, you may very well have. :/ And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who can admit that if they'd known, they might also be on that list.

Guess we're not all angelic, but we're mostly lucky in terms of circumstances. I didn't have a Salvage group (just got one!), and the few Salvage runs I went on were pick ups with random people who barely knew what they were doing, let alone how to dupe. I'm grateful for that now. As much as I'd love to see some finished pieces, I'm really glad I wasn't spamming Salvage and duping drops.

Anyone else? :O

[Malacite]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Why couldn't Tigue have been on that list - _ -'

Anyone else? :O

Nope, rather not take the chance. Besides, in one of the many dev interviews following fan fest I believe they let slip that they were planning on increasing the drop rates for Salvage and admitted they are pretty bad.

Also, wow, every single burtgang owner got banned >_>

[Mog]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Why couldn't Tigue have been on that list - _ -'

I wonder if SoTA falls apart if he gets banned, lol... No more countless gil for members!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I can say I would have passed it up.

I've yelled at people out for trying the CS exploit in missions.

I bitched back at fellow sacks for telling me to log for hate.

I've berated a RDM for PLing one of my PTs at 60+ in VoS back in the RoZ days, it practically drove the MNK in PT to tears because he hadn't had an invite in months.

And I've seen off my fair share of endgame bullies.

If I knew anything about the dupe exploit, I would have told the LS to shove it and dropped my pearl. I've not yet been in a good Salvage LS and, really, there's really only one piece of skadi that's worth a shit to my jobs, so Salvage is more of a stop to work on mythic than anything else for me, which is also a low priority.

I also don't let endgame define me as a player in any way, shape or form. I don't feel inferior to other players if I didn't spend all my time this week doing endgame. I'm not here to play a grunt or a warm body. Its not the fucking army - its a video game. I'm here to be that "adventurer" they talk about in those cutscenes. Crazy idea, I know.

Its also just that I've been the MMORPG addict before, back in my EQ days. I know what its like to let the game define your life and how you live it. I didn't cheat in that one either, but lived in that game and had I continued, I probably would have.

Not returning to that kind of life, no thanks. Other people can look at FFXI as a job, I'll keep looking at it as a game.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I did not know about the exploit. At the time the exploit was active, I was been pursued very vigorously by a group to participate in Salvage. You know how when people talk about something without saying any details? Well that type of conversation was going on and I knew something was up. What it was, I had no idea. At the time I knew the people doing Salvage very well. I knew that they were equip whores and that as soon as they had what they wanted they'd stop playing regardless if other people had what they wanted or not. On the basis of that fact alone, I said no repeatedly. Toss in the fact that I felt people were trying to hide something and there was no way I was going to do it. And I was right, after a few people got what they wanted, they stopped doing it and left the rest high and dry.

I wouldn't have done it and simply because I'm not an equip whore. For as long as I've been playing, my jobs are equipped pretty shitty because I tend to not ask for stuff and I pass so others can have stuff.

[eticket109]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

While I wouldn't use it, I definitely understand the allure of the exploit.

[Kaeko]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

This post may sound a bit reflective in nature, for obvious reasons I suppose.

However you feel about this situation in terms of the severity of the punishment is obviously debatable, but I guess I will just give you my view on how and why someone can get into this 'mess' so to speak. We don't always think ahead clearly when we do things - true in real life, true in game - hence the saying "hindsight is 20/20". In my personal case, when I see a potential bug or hear of one, I generally rush to try to verify it or work out the details of how and why it works. This is quite evident by the material I often talk about. In the excitement of both being able to test such an obvious game flaw in addition to the chances of helping out friends (we were doing Arrapago runs, of which I had all the pieces from already), you can lose sight of how it can affect the fundamental "life and death" of your account. I knew there were risks; however, I never thought it would snowball to the extent that it has. A misgauging of "calculated risk" so to speak.

If you were to ask the list banned / potentially banned players if they would do it again knowing there may be consequences, I promise most or all of them would say no. Just look down that list of players and you'll realize how precious many of those accounts are - the problem is we don't think ahead many times. As 'morally bankrupt' as it may look now, we are all, at times, victims of poor judgment; nor are we all boyscouts when faced with no apparent consequences for cutting corners. Perhaps some of you reading this can truly reflect and say to themselves they would have immediately warped and called a GM upon seeing this in person, but I am not such a person - I am a flawed individual like the vast majority of people. Exploits like this pass by word of mouth via friends as you cannot witness another group's Salvage run personally. To be told this bug ends in a question of loyalty versus personal (in game?) morality.

There is a certain irony to this situation in that we, as the 'elitist pricks' of both BG as often called on Alla and FFXI in general - many of us pioneers of FFXI metagame - were privy to the mercy or lack there of of the average player. I can say with utter sincerity that there was an undeniable arrogance within many of us in that we felt our opinions of the game and its 'politics' mattered moreso than the average player. As arrogant as this may sound, when you are a player that gets quoted on a daily basis and thanked continuously by random strangers there is a sense of misguided invulnerability that comes with it. As you can imagine, the past 36 hours have been hard to swallow, not only due to the possibility of losing an account I've had since 2004 - an account I've had since high school and I am now an adult - but also because I realize that nothing I've done or accomplished in the confines of FFXI really matter when it comes to SE. The masses have spoken and I have fallen in the minority - a truly humbling revelation.

We log onto FFXI knowing that we are at the mercy of SE given that we break ToS, something I and many others do the very instant we log on due to windower. Because of this, I can accept the possible outcomes of this, even if it comes to losing my account and having a certainly ungraceful exit from FFXI. I've really come to terms with this, thanks to a healthy RL, which I am very thankful for. This experience has been both humbling and insightful, however obviously unfortunate it is.

FFXI is a much cleaner place without players like myself in it and I'll freely admit that. I don't see myself as a morally bankrupt individual or a bad person - we all are capable of making mistakes, certainly in an online environment. I've made many and I'm sure I'll make more in the future. As I wrote when this first came out about 36 hours ago, every action has it's consequences. Sometimes they do not work in your favor, sometimes they can be severe, and sometimes you aren't given a second chance - and that's OK.

Best Wishes

[ShepardG]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Kaeko,

Big ups man, that's good shit. I don't know you from adam, but your alright in my book. Duped gear or not.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Wow, now I'm curious. A buddy of mine is an endgamer on Valefor, but I can't get to BG due to work security. I'll have to ask him tomorrow if he got banned. I hope not. ^.^`

Taking away no drops would deny the cheaters of their spoils, but the sellable items could harm a person who had no idea they were essentially buying stolen goods.

GMs are the police of FFXI, while STF are the CIA/FBI/HS. Essentially, they maintain order and enforce the law. When laws are not enforced then the good suffer at the expense of the wicked. By doling out heavy punishments for cheating, there will be less temptation by other players to play with fire. If a person can have their hundred to thousand hour playtime account destroyed by exploiting, they will be damn sure to avoid anything questionable. And if they accidently find themselves either discovering an exploit or reaping the benefits of one, they are much more likely to report the situation to AVOID being seen as a cheater in the eyes of the STF.

Our membership to FFXI is voluntary, as is the service itself provided by Squeenix. They agree to provide service and upkeep so long as we pay the monthly fee and abide by the ToS. While they have it in their power to ban anyone for any reason they want, doing so would jeapordize the community. If it became known that the STF was banning people randomly for minor or nonexistant infractions of ToS, then normal players would be wary about investing their time and money into FFXI. What is the point of spending hundreds of dollars and playtime if you can lose it all over nothing? People who break the ToS do so at their own risk. It doesn't matter if they are a new character or holders of Maat's cap. The moment they cheat/exploit is the end of their justifiable playtime; anything after that is playing on borrowed time before the ban cannon fires their character into the sun.

As for the amount of money the Squeenix loses for the bans and the subsequent losses when friends of the banned also leave, that doesn't compare to how much money they would lose if they left the servers unmoderated. By maintaining order and doing what they can to root out and expunge cheaters, they ensure a level playing field for every other player who does not break ToS.

My friends and I quit a couple years ago. We had lost interest in the game for a variety of reasons, but one of the main issues was the astronomical inflation. We did not want to spend 70% of our time farming and camping NMs to come up with the money for equips and tools for our jobs. When we eventually came back and prices had stabilized from the mass exodus of Gilsellers and funny money, we found we had more time to party and quest and otherwise have fun.

By punishing cheaters and ensuring that honest players can thrive, Squeenix garners itself more subscriptions from new players looking for a good MMORPG and continued payment from current players. If cheating is left unchecked, only the cheaters will thrive and the rest of us will stop having fun and eventually quit. The loss of $7k a month by banning cheaters can be likened to cutting out a cancerous tumor before it mestasizes: a painful but necessary step to ensure the continued life of the body.

I am proud that Squeenix has investigated the matter and banned the cheaters. It makes me proud that FFXI is home to many skilled and honest players where only 1k of 500k were banned for cheating. I am proud of the DiV community for having so few (if any) regulars getting the boot during this banning sweep. All in all, this is a good day to be a good guy. ^.^

[Kailea]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I did not know about the exploit. At the time the exploit was active, I was been pursued very vigorously by a group to participate in Salvage. You know how when people talk about something without saying any details? Well that type of conversation was going on and I knew something was up. What it was, I had no idea. At the time I knew the people doing Salvage very well. I knew that they were equip whores and that as soon as they had what they wanted they'd stop playing regardless if other people had what they wanted or not. On the basis of that fact alone, I said no repeatedly. Toss in the fact that I felt people were trying to hide something and there was no way I was going to do it. And I was right, after a few people got what they wanted, they stopped doing it and left the rest high and dry.

I wouldn't have done it and simply because I'm not an equip whore. For as long as I've been playing, my jobs are equipped pretty shitty because I tend to not ask for stuff and I pass so others can have stuff.

ah scary TGM.... we DO have something in common lol ^.^


and to Kaeko, very good post, its nice to see a banned admit, and not say "its SEs fault for bad coding" like 90% of the others have.

[Balfree]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Kudos to Kaeko.

And a nice post, EternalMalachi.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

What I've seen Kaeko and a few others say on the matter is of stark contrast to what I've seen people like Map and Merona saying. Thank you for saying what you need to hear yourself rather than saying what you want to hear.

[Malacite]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

And here's hoping you're only on the list of temporary bans. The stuff you've done on BLM is amazing and I love reading your LJ for insight ^^

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Kaeko, if I would have the chance to talk to you personally, one thing has been really bugging me about you more than you getting banned possibly could.

It concerns Absolute Virtue.

When you posted your hypotheses on utilizing enmity to defeat AV (right before a version update, for crying out loud), did it ever, ever occur to you that you were just waving some ginormous sign for Square-Enix, something along the lines of . . . well, this?

The above notwithstanding, I respect you and all the good you have done for the community during your time here. Peace, man.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

We log onto FFXI knowing that we are at the mercy of SE given that we break ToS, something I and many others do the very instant we log on due to windower.

As I wrote when this first came out about 36 hours ago, every action has it's consequences. Sometimes they do not work in your favor, sometimes they can be severe, and sometimes you aren't given a second chance - and that's OK.

I thanked you for those 2 statements. Admitting every day you log in you are cheating and realizing that if you are caught there could be dire consequences is one thing but then saying that you accept responsibility is the measure of a man.

Let me leave you with this:

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." - Martin Luther King Jr.