Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

[hpsolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

you may not have receive anything from salvage, but you knew about the glitch and used it. You should have reported it to a GM, so they could fix it.


Some people did not report it because "I was afraid I would get banned for using it"

A GM is not going to ban you, if you used it once, finding out about it, then reporting it -.-

GM: Can I help you?
p1: uumm yes I was informed of this glitch, and wanted to make sure it was true. I went and tried it, and sure enough it does happen.
GM: oh really well can you tell me about this glitch?
p1: *explains glitch and how it works*
GM: ah ok, well thank you for that information, I have reported it.

was that so hard?
______________________________

You're preaching to the choir. I admit I did not take the right approach. This isn't about me; I am not complaining that my suspension was somehow unfair or unjust. I'm sorry if you didn't want to ready my post because there were too many words there. But I invite you to read it if you are actually interested in debating the topic I am trying to bring up: that there _are_ cases which I believe are not deserving of these bans and that SE might actually be making mistakes here regarding NOT ME, but people I know. But if you are content on lumping us all into one group, then I guess my attempts here are indeed futile, and I'll just end here.

[MrMageo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I play on both PC and PS3. I personally use windower, but I don't feel it gives me the upper hand in anything. I run basic pugins, TParty, Distance, and Recast

all of which are available to anyone using the ingame functions. I use them because people seem to refuse to broadcast TP anymore

TPARTY = /p <job> TP= <tp>, /p <job> MP = <mp>
Recast= /wait xx, /recast "ability"
Distance= trial and error

Compared to what I can do on PS2 it offers me no real advantage, since all my macros contain /recast anyhow, and if I am curious of others TP and MP I can always say <job> TP?. It does make it easier, but if everyone stuck to a basic fundamental of broadcasting their info when needed then it would make no difference.

Do I consider it an exploit, not really, does it violate the ToS yes, if I got banned for using it then I would accept the punishment, I know its not legit in SE's eyes. Would I be against SE for banning me, no, there is no reason to I am in the wrong and I admit it. Although I would probably receive a warning since I have never done any wrong in this game (outside of being sent to jail for MPKing fishbots in SSG in which the GM told me that it was just a process and if they were confirmed non legit players it would be wiped, even got an email saying my trip was removed from my record how nice of them.)

All in all its what you make of it, I get banned for violating the ToS it is because I did something to earn it, hell even if I got banned for this dupe thing for knowing of it and not saying anything (even tho i never used it) I would accept that because in the ToS SE specifically asks us to report them right away.

I was reading the PFA article and the comparisions to some of the stuff that had bannings or didn't is stupid, 90% of the crap Chin compared to (ie. harrasment etc) is solved by ingame function /blist, the rest I know for a fact people have been banned for.

I totally agree it is a multiple offense thing, generally you don't get to 6 relic weapons legit, there is something you have done at one point to burn yourself.

That being said, I think all the BG QQ should man up, take responsibility, you knew you were doing something wrong and got what you deserved congratulations welcome to life.

[Kailea]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

You're preaching to the choir. I admit I did not take the right approach. This isn't about me; I am not complaining that my suspension was somehow unfair or unjust. I'm sorry if you didn't want to ready my post because there were too many words there. But I invite you to read it if you are actually interested in debating the topic I am trying to bring up: that there _are_ cases which I believe are not deserving of these bans and that SE might actually be making mistakes here regarding NOT ME, but people I know. But if you are content on lumping us all into one group, then I guess my attempts here are indeed futile, and I'll just end here.

I read it, please don't throw little insults at me about not reading it because of it having to many words -.-

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

is EVERYONE's past infractions also being poured over? Or are they only looking at past infractions if you were involved in duping?

Ever heard the saying "Liars lie"? They don't need to pore over everyone's past logs when they've about 1k people caught up in a scheme to profit from a glitch. If an honest person were to run into the glitch, they'd report it and its very unlikely that their logs will be investigated to see if they did bad stuff in the past. If, however, you are caught exploiting a bug and act evasive, say, like avoiding telling people to keep Squeenix from finding out about the bug, well, then it is likely that you have done something you shouldn't have and that may not be the only thing wrong. Why look over EVERYONE's logs when not EVERYONE is a cheater? Look over the cheaters logs and see what else they've done.

Why does SE spell out certain exploits, and yet not others?

The drk zerg tactic wasn't an exploit. To gather that many high lvl drks and that many kclubs is a feat in itself, but it all followed the battle system. Bloodweapon takes the damage of the hit and converts it into a drain, essentially. Using the Kclub in this way has been a known power house attack for a long time and Squeenix approved. They didn't think it would be used by 18 drks at once to defeat their boss, but it broke no rules. Instead, Squeenix made changes to prevent that from being a simple (ha!) way to beat their high end boss ecounters.

What people keep trying to argue is that exploiting a bug is not a ToS violation, when it has been explicitly spelled out in the ToS that it is. The people who tried to hide the salvage duping glitch KNEW they were exploiting a glitch, which is why they tried so hard to keep people from learning about it. The more people knew, the more likely Squeenix would find out about it and fix the glitch. THAT is what got them in trouble. If they had reported the glitch, Squeenix would have investigate the glitch, checked over logs to see what caused it, and fixed it. The people who got the rewards from it would probably have kept their stuff, unless they tried to exploit it as many times before the patch fixed it, then they would probably have gotten a warning about it, or even the items taken away.

It all boils down to this: Players found a glitch, exploited the glitch, conspired to keep Squeenix from finding out so they could continue to exploit it. There is no defending their actions. They did wrong, they knew it, and they tried to cover it up. Unfortunately for them, they got caught. Liars lie. People who would cheat on one thing are people who would probably cheat on something else, so Squeenix investigated them and found those things and the players got banned for it.

The very fact that he's banning anyone he wants makes it arbitrary.

He is banning cheaters. Boom. Done. The problem is this: Squeenix has traditionally taken a rather lax stance in terms of people violating ToS. Perhaps it stems from them expecting the players to be honorable individuals who abide by the ToS they have accepted. Who knows? Regardless, they let things slide until it becomes a major issue, then they address the situation. RMT is a perfect example. If its something they can fix quickly, they do so and thats the end of it, but when people are deceptive, they have to take a hard stance to deter others from acting in a similar fashion. Your complaint seems to be, "Well why do I have to be the example?!" Well, you cheated, so you have no ground to stand on in your defense. If you cheated 5 times but got away with it the first four times, consider yourself lucky for having escaped punishment so many times before your behaviour finally caught up with you. The fact that these cheaters are whining is what so many people are laughing and giddy about.

Do you read the ToS every time you log in?

Doesn't matter if you read it or not. By hitting accept, you acknowledge that you agree to the terms. It is YOUR obligation to read, understand, and be familiar with it. If you choose to sign a contract without reading it, then thats YOUR problem.

And like I said before, Squeenix would not just go around banning people for no reason, even though they can if they so choose. The reason they don't is because people would not invest so much time in money into a character if it can just be taken away at the drop of a hat. And no one HAS lost their character for no reason, have they? No, CHEATERS have lost their characters. Violaters of the ToS have lost their characters. If you follow the ToS, then there is NO RISK AT ALL to you losing your character. If you violate the ToS using 3rd party software, you RUN THE RISK OF BEING BANNED. Doesn't mean you will be banned, especially since Squeenix hasn't figured out a way to detect if you're using the 3rd party software or not. But if they did, and they do ban you, don't whine that you got caught, feel lucky that you got away with it for so long.
______________________________

that there _are_ cases which I believe are not deserving of these bans and that SE might actually be making mistakes here

You are free to believe that all you like, and its pretty apparant that most of us disagree. It doesn't matter what your feelings or our feelings or anyone's feelings on the subject but Squeenix and their STF. They have taken the position that they will punish the cheaters. They have investigated the cheaters and doled out temporary suspensions in some cases and permabans in others, as they saw fit, after investigating a years worth of the cheaters logs. I applaud their efforts in this matter, as do many of my fellow players.

Don't want to get banned? Don't cheat. That is the lesson of the day. Those who may be tempted to cheat should take this lesson into consideration. Those who did cheat and got off with just a suspension, should take this lesson to heart.

[hpsolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

<i>Your complaint seems to be, "Well why do I have to be the example?!" Well, you cheated, so you have no ground to stand on in your defense.</i>

No, it is not, was not, and never will be... somehow you are fixed on this notion that everyone who as banned (perma- or temp-, myself included) is trying to defend their actions, and that's not what I am doing here. I am not questioning why they banned; I am questioning _HOW_ they go about doing it.

Again, I'm not interested in anyone's sympathy. I am not here to defend my or anyone's duping actions. I am, however, questioning how SE is addressing the situation, not why, or should they, etc. No one seems to be getting this, so I give in. There is nothing to debate here, since everyone else seems fixed on a tangential topic. Some of you are at least responding to points that I bring up, for that I thank you for the scholarly debate. To everyone else, take care!

[aegina]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I notice there's no one from Cait Sith on that list.

I guess we're too dumb to discover glitches like this!

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

They have stated in their ToS that if you violate the terms then you risk having your account terminated. They are judge, jury, and executioner. STF is like a friendly Judge Dredd. Do you want them to explain to everyone how they go about collecting data, by what criteria they are forming their opinions, and exactly what each of the 950 people are being disciplined for? Well, if thats what you want, then you can ask Squeenix. As they are under no obligation to tell you or anyone, good luck with that.

No, you are not defending your or anyone elses actions so much as you are whining about it. I've brought up several times now that in order to deter future cheating and explotation of bugs and glitches, they have to make the idea of cheating too risky to take. Their weapon is the ban cannon, and they are showing people that they will use it. You are complaining that people got away with stuff in the past. Well, the past doesn't matter any more. Squeenix is showing NOW that they will ban you for exploiting glitches. If you find a glitch, report it.

[aegina]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

<i>Your complaint seems to be, "Well why do I have to be the example?!" Well, you cheated, so you have no ground to stand on in your defense.</i>

No, it is not, was not, and never will be... somehow you are fixed on this notion that everyone who as banned (perma- or temp-, myself included) is trying to defend their actions, and that's not what I am doing here. I am not questioning why they banned; I am questioning _HOW_ they go about doing it.

Again, I'm not interested in anyone's sympathy. I am not here to defend my or anyone's duping actions. I am, however, questioning how SE is addressing the situation, not why, or should they, etc. No one seems to be getting this, so I give in. There is nothing to debate here, since everyone else seems fixed on a tangential topic. Some of you are at least responding to points that I bring up, for that I thank you for the scholarly debate. To everyone else, take care!

I get what you're saying. You're wondering how they decide who gets banned.

Normally, they throw darts at a board with a buncha names on it. If a dart lands near your name, it's a temp ban, directly on your name leads to a perma ban. Sometimes they add a blindfold to make it more interesting.

Occasionally, they use dice instead. Roll the dice, plug the numbers into an insanely complex math equasion and it chooses a name at random. All in good fun :D

edit: Oh, yeah, it's the same system they use to choose what new jobs they release, what abilities/equipment those jobs will have, and whether or not that piece of critical gear you've been trying for 3 months to get will actually drop. Do you actually play this game? This is SE we're talking about! The company whose name has become synonimous with random, epic (though addictive) FAIL! XD

[Durahansolo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

I notice there's no one from Cait Sith on that list.

I guess we're too dumb to discover glitches like this!

lol I noticed there were only like 10 from Leviathan that got caught. I think I had only seen maybe 2 of the people on the list before. One of them I knew very vaguely through parties and my LS leader.

[EternalMalachi]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

None from Sylph. ^.^ Go team~

[Mog]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

None from Sylph. ^.^ Go team~

Keep in mind that SE could possibly be doing this in waves. It takes a very long time to go through chat logs on each server, wouldn't surprise me if they announced more "winners" in the near future.

[meSchnitzel]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

wasn't the temp ban supposed to be over today? Did anyone find out they were really perma?

[MrMageo]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

Garuda got hit well, SA got hit, serves them right.

I bet they let the game decide the fate. With the /Random function above 500 was a perma below 500-50 was a temp and 50-0 = warning letter

offender number 1 please step forward.

/random
Banzilla rolls 967
Banzilla readies Banhammer
Offender #1 disapeared

Offender #2 Step forward

/random
Banzilla rolls a 47!
Banzilla readies warning slip
Offender #2 recieves mail

Offender #3 step forward

/random
Banzilla rolls a 492
Banzilla readies Manage a trois
Offender #3 earned 3days vacation without pay

Offender number 4 step forward
/random
Banzilla rolls a 500
Banzilla readies coin flip
Offender #4 recives the effect of call the office
Offender #4's call the office effect wears off
Offender #4 disapeared

[Armando]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

edit: Oh, yeah, it's the same system they use to choose what new jobs they release, what abilities/equipment those jobs will have, and whether or not that piece of critical gear you've been trying for 3 months to get will actually drop. Do you actually play this game? This is SE we're talking about! The company whose name has become synonimous with random, epic (though addictive) FAIL! XD

I think the players just like having something to gripe about on every update, even if the update wins.

[eticket109]

Re: Handling Misconduct (Jan. 22) aka Ban hammer!

wasn't the temp ban supposed to be over today? Did anyone find out they were really perma?

SE always rounds up a day instead of actually doing the extra work and banning to the hour. Go figure.

From my understanding, the temp bans should come off tonight at midnight pst.