Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

[Nuriko]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

[quote=Ziero;814585]I wonder the same thing and it hurts my brain! We need more half submerged battlegrounds. Though Taru might have a tendency to drown in deep water.../quote]

Taru shouldn't go to Horlais Peak, then ... the exit zone is a hot springs.

As for chests and coffers, they're nice to get even if they're not so rewarding as your typical RPG. I was in Beadeaux the other day with two other people, and we took a few minutes to pop the chest when we happened to get a key ... nearly 10k gil each.

[Forrester]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Following the conclusion of combat, a “Treasure Casket” will appear to bring a little bit of cheer to the hunt-weary adventurer. These treasure caskets may contain two types of rewards: temporary items and regular items. The goods which players receive will differ according to the area they are in, but for the most part will consist of items such as medicines to aid them in battle, and, for the luckiest of souls, exclusive gear which can only be obtained on the hunt! These chests may be a part of the Fields of Valor system

[Armando]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Treasure chests aren't some rare, wonderous experience that only a few players will ever be fortunate enough to stumble upon, they're a damn near requirement for most players in this game. And in the off chance you do happen upon a dungeon with no treasure chests currently availible, all you have to do is wait 20 minutes and another set will be right along, probably even less after the update.

You get to ask for high level help to pop some RSE and your AF (and RSE is buyable.) You have to pop chests twice during your FFXI lifetime. That's about it. Big whoop. More often than not you go through a dungeon and never pop the chest. You're probably in the dungeon levelling, farming, or doing some quest. Unless you're farming the same mobs that drop the key, or you're a THF (and even then, the chest would have to be worth wasting tools) even if you do see the chest, you'll likely ignore it. This is a sharp contrast with how chests are usually handled in other games; they're dime-a-dozen and not all of them require a key to open. Hell, if you're not high enough to kill the keyholder mobs you can't pop a chest in a dungeon at all even if you can run all over it.

Also, again, it's completely irrelevant how available the chests are, there's still a small number of them. You keep ignoring that fact or trying to make alternative comparisons (e.g. "there's a chest in every dungeon") for the sake of making your argument feasable when there's no denying that 1 or 2 chests per dungeon is a lot less than the number of chests found in other RPG's dungeons.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

LOL wow, this thread grew while I was gone.

"What are you crazy, this game had plenty of treasure chests!"

Here's the thing - in an RPG setting, there's no such thing as too many treasure chests. I was practically tripping chests in FFIX and FFXII.

Professor Oak: Bitch be tripping chests.

You can never have too many treasure chests. Except Pso'xja where all Treasure Chests are lies waiting to eat you!

[Ziero]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Following the conclusion of combat, a “Treasure Casket” will appear to bring a little bit of cheer to the hunt-weary adventurer. These treasure caskets may contain two types of rewards: temporary items and regular items. The goods which players receive will differ according to the area they are in, but for the most part will consist of items such as medicines to aid them in battle, and, for the luckiest of souls, exclusive gear which can only be obtained on the hunt! These chests may be a part of the Fields of Valor system

If that's the case then it'd make a lot more sense.

You get to ask for high level help to pop some RSE and your AF (and RSE is buyable.) You have to pop chests twice during your FFXI lifetime. That's about it. Big whoop. More often than not you go through a dungeon and never pop the chest. You're probably in the dungeon levelling, farming, or doing some quest. Unless you're farming the same mobs that drop the key, or you're a THF (and even then, the chest would have to be worth wasting tools) even if you do see the quest, you'll likely ignore it. Again, this is a sharp contrast with how chests are usually handled in other games; they're dime-a-dozen and not all of them require a key to open. Hell, if you're not high enough to kill the keyholder mobs you can't pop a chest in a dungeon at all.

Multiple scroll and other quests require Chests and coffers, AFs for the original 16 jobs require no less then 3 coffer hunts and many, many maps are only found through coffers. And of course there's just randomly finding keys and using them to pop chests for whatever's inside. There are plenty of chests in this game. Chests in this game aren't rare or unused in any way, despite being only one up at a time.

Also, again, it's completely irrelevant how available the chests are, there's still a small number of them. You keep ignoring that fact or trying to make alternative comparisons for the sake of making your argument feasable when there's no denying that 1 or 2 chests per dungeon is a lot less than the number of chests found in other RPG's dungeons.

And I'll respond to this, with this:

The difference is in a console game there's a chest in every nook and cranny of a dungeon, there's always some secret path to find that leads you to a stockpile of chests with some meds and some rare and powerful gear.

Would you prefer if there was a giant room that was filled with chests? Would having 10 chests in one room be better? Do you think, for an MMORPG, a dungeon should have 10 chests up at the same time, but once opened they'd never return? I mean you could still only open one at a time...unless you were a Thf. That sounds like a great idea.

In FFXI there is one or two chests in a dungeon with 8~ spawn points each, and you're never going to open a chest to find an Enhancing Sword or Assault Breastplate, at best you're going to get 15k gil or a Topaz.

Back when Astrals were in chests, people farmed them to hell and back. To the point where those looking for AF couldn't get their AF. There's a reason why random treasure chests don't offer incredible rewards, because if they did they'd be camped to hell and back. Though to be fair, some AF pieces, which are found in coffers, are pretty damn nice.

[Durahansolo]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

LOL wow, this thread grew while I was gone.

"What are you crazy, this game had plenty of treasure chests!"

Here's the thing - in an RPG setting, there's no such thing as too many treasure chests. I was practically tripping chests in FFIX and FFXII.


You can never have too many treasure chests. Except Pso'xja where all Treasure Chests are lies waiting to eat you!

Possibly because in those games which were offline chests were stationary and 1 time only things so they had to put a bunch of them in the game. Since there was only 1 person playing the game to obtain the items unlike MMOs where there are many people trying to get them. In FFXI chests spawn and respawn in different spots otherwise people would camp the same spot and nobody would get the chest which would possibly unbalance the game. So technically there are infinite chests/coffers but you just have to wait for them to respawn.

Professor Oak: Bitch be tripping chests.

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[Armando]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Multiple scroll and other quests require Chests and coffers, AFs for the original 16 jobs require no less then 3 coffer hunts, many, many maps are only found through coffers. And of course there's just randomly finding keys and using them to pop chests for whatever's inside. There are plenty of chests in this game.

And none of that could truly said to be "mandatory." Besides AF, chests are hardly mandatory for any player.

Also...

Do you think, for an MMORPG, a dungeon should have 10 chests up at the same time, but once opened they'd never return? I mean you could still only open one at a time...unless you were a Thf. That sounds like a great idea.

You're presenting a false dilemma. There's no reason why you'd have to choose between 1 chest that respawns or 10 that don't. There's a middle ground - 10 chests that respawn. And you're also assuming that all 10 chests would require a key. Some chests could be opened as they are, and they wouldn't necessarily have to provide the same level of reward as locked chests, just like they're about to do with these new chests. And nothing would've stopped them from making it that way since the game's original launch.

[Lunaryn]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Army: I want to say you have to at least pop one Beastman banner successfully to be entitled to any reward. But yeah, so long as you succeed in one of those battles, it doesn't matter how much or little influence you actually succeed in getting. I was in an EFLS back in 2006 and we usually did an EF in a region in which Bastok already had major influence in order to ensure we got CP reward. The general consensus was that since xp was so much greater an influence, there wasn't much point in doing an EF in a region that wasn't at least a toss-up. That LS never tried to chain the banner pops or anything, though.

[Lmnop]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Worthy of note: currently, when you're looking for a chest (and I'm with Armando on BCNM reward chests not counting. That's just collecting your prize), it's a pain in the ass. Through and through.

First, you're spending hours farming a key. Then you're tracking down just one chest in this entire flippin' zone for a very specific purpose. Be it AF or completion of some quest, you have a single chest that will have just one result for you.

THFs get it slightly better, but not by much.

Give me a chance to get a wide range of stuff and in more random locations? Potential of getting the same item in multiple different areas (taking a cue from Ixion/Sandworm)? Lots of chests resulting in temporary items so you get to have the fun of finding them mid-exp and have them immediately affect your exp party w/out anyone feeling like they're missing out on a r/e item? This is all good. There's no way to not enjoy this, Ziero.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

Possibly because in those games which were offline chests were stationary and 1 time only things so they had to put a bunch of them in the game. Since there was only 1 person playing the game to obtain the items unlike MMOs where there are many people trying to get them. In FFXI chests spawn and respawn in different spots otherwise people would camp the same spot and nobody would get the chest which would possibly unbalance the game. So technically there are infinite chests/coffers but you just have to wait for them to respawn.

As I pointed out earlier, not all conditions for the chests in offline games have been the same. What's to say the longer one of these chests remains unopened, the sweeter the rewards are?

We have evolving NMs, after all.

[Cotners]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

We have evolving NMs, after all.

Hate those ><... Rose Garden could kiss my butt back in the day.

[Ziero]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

And none of that could truly said to be "mandatory." Besides AF, chests are hardly mandatory for any player.

I said "near requirement" not "mandatory". Find me someone who's never popped a chest for anything in this game and I'll show you someone who's ignoring content.

Also...You're presenting a false dilemma. There's no reason why you'd have to choose between 1 chest that respawns or 10 that don't. There's a middle ground - 10 chests that respawn. And you're also assuming that all 10 chests would require a key. Some chests could be opened as they are, and they wouldn't necessarily have to provide the same level of reward as locked chests, just like they're about to do with these new chests. And nothing would've stopped them from making it that way since the game's original launch.

And what exactly would be the purpose of that? Do you seriously think that wouldn't be abused? What if someone went around and popped all 10 of them himself, leaving no chests in the zone? Should they repop instant? If so how do you stop people spawn camping them? Unless you put useless junk in them, people would abuse a system like that, and in the end it would sort of pointless. I'm all for more treasure, but I'd at least like some reasoning and balance behind it. In offline RPGs, there's no point in making people jump through hoops for every little chest, but in an MMO, there should be some catch to them.

Worthy of note: currently, when you're looking for a chest (and I'm with Armando on BCNM reward chests not counting. That's just collecting your prize), it's a pain in the ass. Through and through.

First, you're spending hours farming a key. Then you're tracking down just one chest in this entire flippin' zone for a very specific purpose. Be it AF or completion of some quest, you have a single chest that will have just one result for you.

THFs get it slightly better, but not by much.

Give me a chance to get a wide range of stuff and in more random locations? Potential of getting the same item in multiple different areas (taking a cue from Ixion/Sandworm)? Lots of chests resulting in temporary items so you get to have the fun of finding them mid-exp and have them immediately affect your exp party w/out anyone feeling like they're missing out on a r/e item? This is all good. There's no way to not enjoy this, Ziero.

I'm just wondering why they would feel the need to throw chests randomly into zones and how people can say there are only "too few" treasure chests in this game. If this concept is tied to the FoV then it would make a lot more sense, it's a reward found during/after a specific event ala Nyzul. But if it's just "random chest in the middle of a field" then it would down right dumb imo.

As I pointed out earlier, not all conditions for the chests in offline games have been the same. What's to say the longer one of these chests remains unopened, the sweeter the rewards are?

We have evolving NMs, after all.

And why would they need new chests to do that? Why couldn't they do that with the old chests? Which btw, I think is a great idea.

[Ellipses]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

And what exactly would be the purpose of that? Do you seriously think that wouldn't be abused? What if someone went around and popped all 10 of them himself, leaving no chests in the zone? Should they repop instant? If so how do you stop people spawn camping them?

You must wait longer before repeating that action.

Not that they'll do that, but it would be a good way to lessen the abuse while still keeping the rewards worthwhile (and make RSE/AF/maps/quests not count toward that).

Personally, I don't think whether it makes sense or whether it's necessary make for good arguments against inclusion. The only one that really matters is whether it's fun*, and to me, this sounds fun.

*Anything unfairly unbalanced is not fun, so of course the devil is in the details of the implementation; I'm talking about the concept.

Edit: Okay, completely nonsensical crap wouldn't make sense to add, but I'd say this is in a gray area on that scale at worst.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

given that chests are being rewarded in Fields of Valor and MMM on top of this, I don't see how manipulation of these chests would be that extreme. SE is adding a lot of chests to be opened in this update.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Troves of New Treasures Await You! (12/02/2008)

So technically there are infinite chests/coffers but you just have to wait for them to respawn.

That's like arguing that every player has access to infinite gil by simply repeating the same 100 gil reward quest over and over.