December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

No Raise dance please... just no. That will send the wrong message to people, that DNC is a main healer (it's not; like SCH it is an amazing back up healer for the main though SCH can perform admirably as a main)

I was originally hoping for a Haste Samba II, but with Haste Samba merits in group 1 I don't it happening now >.> (unless SE intends for people to hit the haste cap via Hasso + HS2)

Drain Samba IV and Apsir Samba III seem fairly likely, maybe some new Flourishes and Steps. A dispel flourish and another level of Divine Waltz would be much appreciated (and lower the TP cost of the DW 1 please, 60 TP is way the fuck too much for the HP it heals)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Weakness-removal Dance.

Yes no maybe? >.>

[Armando]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Plague Step. Inflicts a potent Plague on the mob. Something like (-6 * Step Level) TP/tick.

[Durahansolo]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Plague Step. Inflicts a potent Plague on the mob. Something like (-6 * Step Level) TP/tick.

So this move drains your TP while the poison plague is in effect? What about a TP Samba +1-2 (1H Weapons) and TP 2-4 (2H Weapons) drained per hit.

[Callisto]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Some way to get TP or buff party members without meleeing would be nice, something to make them actually useful in large fights.

[Balfree]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Tactical Samba anyone? ^^

[Durahansolo]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

*Is feeling the urge to go level DNC from level 22* The BLU Immortals might not like that though.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Weakness-removal Dance.

No? That really would be going too far. If anyone should get that it's WHM.


And DNC already has Reverse Flourish, so I don't see them getting any more abilities to enhance TP gain. A dispel would be extremely helpful, maybe even a sleep (go go belly dance!!!) but I'm not sure about Plague.

[Ellipses]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

A dispel flourish and another level of Divine Waltz would be much appreciated (and lower the TP cost of the DW 1 please, 60 TP is way the fuck too much for the HP it heals)

Divine Waltz only costs 40 TP, and it heals for the same amount as Curing Waltz 1, across the whole party. So if you have 2 people hurt enough for CW1, DW1 ties with it. If you have more than 2 injured, it's more efficient.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

It has been a while since I last used DNC, sorry thought it was more. I still say a second one (50~55 TP please...) that's basically AoE Cure Waltz 3 or 4 would be nice (probably 4 since IIRC each "waltz" is more or less as strong as a cure of the next level higher)

[Karinya]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

I think it would be nice to have a JA that allows you to perform a Flourish without requiring or consuming finishing moves. That would be fairly powerful, so it would need to be on a long timer (like 10-5 min depending on level).

It would also help with the cold start problem - pop that and reverse flourish and you have 60-75 TP. (Of course as a merit ability it doesn't help in level capped situations.)


As an alternative to a higher level Divine Waltz, how about a Group 2 JA that increases the amount of HP cured by your next Waltz (similar to what Divine Seal does for Cures)? You could use it with either a single target Waltz or DW.


Probably, though, SE has already decided what the DNC Group 2s will be and just isn't telling us yet, so this brainstorming is useless. They'll give DNC whatever they decide to give DNC - it's not like the job is gimped even without any group 2s at all.

Leveling-up DNC (or 75s who choose to join a level sync party) are already due to be helped slightly by the changes in level sync - they will no longer have their TP and FMs wiped when the LS target levels. (This benefits everyone, but it was an especially annoying problem for DNC, in my experience.)

P.S. Although I just said it's probably useless, I had another idea for DNC group 2 after I hit post: a trait that makes your steps sometimes inflict 2 levels of debuff effect instead of 1. Probability increases at higher levels (maybe to 100%, maybe not).

[Ellipses]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Leveling-up DNC (or 75s who choose to join a level sync party) are already due to be helped slightly by the changes in level sync - they will no longer have their TP and FMs wiped when the LS target levels. (This benefits everyone, but it was an especially annoying problem for DNC, in my experience.)

Lordy, yes. Most of the time it's just momentarily annoying, since it's basically just another cold start. But being the only one awake after Dream Flower and having your TP disappear, or right after a Bomb Toss or something, is a teensy bit more frustrating.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Probably, though, SE has already decided what the DNC Group 2s will be and just isn't telling us yet, so this brainstorming is useless.

You didn't read all the info that came out the other day did you? They're going to reveal DNC Group 2's and what their Relic looks like @ Fan Fest.


And a 10 minute JA for a free flourish (merit it down to 5 recast max) would be really sweet as you said to get the balling rolling with Reverse Flourish. Though, IIRC doesn't Reverse require multiple finishing moves to build more TP? Assuming this new JA doesn't count as using it with the max, you'd only get something like 20 TP I think (not a whole lot at any rate)

As an alternative to a higher level Divine Waltz, how about a Group 2 JA that increases the amount of HP cured by your next Waltz (similar to what Divine Seal does for Cures)? You could use it with either a single target Waltz or DW.

I'd still rather have the tier 2 Divine. Though now you got me curious as to whether or not Divine Seal works with waltzes >.>

I mean they are both Cures in a sense... I doubt it does but I'm just wondering if no one's tried it yet because it's a JA.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

What problems exist for DNC I would hope SE wouldn't be trying to fix completely through Category 2 merits, but through the main job itself.

But then, they haven't addressed similar issues that BLU, BST and PUP face, so maybe they just don't care to. But its also kinda undeniable that players exaggerate the "feeding the mob TP" situation. Sometimes that's the excuse even when the mob has infinite TP to blow anyway.

A trait that amplifies Subtle Blow to the point where DNCs don't give a mob TP would be helpful, but then, it would kinda overpower them for certain parts of endgame as well.. Kinda steps on the toes of the tricks MNK, RDM and even CORs can play with Subtle Blow effects.

Plague Step could be an interesting solution, though. Inducing plauge would give the DNC a reason to melee as well.

At any rate, the limitations DNC is faced with at endgame need to be addressed, I just hope SE isn't planning to do it via Group 2.

And I hope SE is seriously looking at the issues with DNC at endgame and thinking of a solution that can be applied to BLU, PUP and BST as well.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Oh I agree wholeheartedly, merits should never be used as a means to shore up a job's short comings; that's just bad design.


That said, I wouldn't be surprised if SCH's Relic has more pieces like it's AF that further boost skill ratings substantially for each "Arts".


As for DNC, I just had an idea for a really interesting ability. What if they could merit either a trait (or perhaps a JA for more balance) that allows them to either transfer the HP/MP/Haste they personally gain from their Samba to another player in a similar fashion to Cover?

That is, say you put up Aspir Samba II and select the BLM in the PT. Now whenever you strike and siphon MP from the mob it goes to the BLM rather than yourself. I considered an AoE version of this for a moment but then said no, that'd be retarded especially if it stacked on top of what people were already getting.

Assuming DNC does gain another tier of Drain or Aspir, I really hope they cost less TP than DS III/ AS II via upgrades, or at least increase their potency. Part of the problem with the Sambas is the values drained can vary wildly, especially with Aspir hitting extreme lows a lot of the time.