December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

I just wants my sword magic

Get. In. Line.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNcSx4sNL2M]YouTube - Unused JA/Spell/Effect DATs[/ame]

(Most of us seem to have forgotten about that one spell dat that came before the "new enspell line," but still had a sort of an Enspell style to its graphic . . . I have to wonder what that one was about, because I'm certainly amongst the most of us who had forgotten about it.)

Also, for bonus points, witness the awesomeness that is Ingus (though, it kinda looks like Arc pulled a Vivi on him, too).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cySEm8V2R3Y]YouTube - Final Fantasy III DS Opening[/ame]

Yeah, sure, he technically could have been any job, but he came from the elite of a kingdom whose soldiers aspire to be Red Mages. So yeah.

EDIT: {Holy} . . . ! I really need to be quicker about these posts; last one I saw during the posting of this was post 95. <_<;

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Never.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXL9lYkaPdQ]YouTube - Final Fantasy V Advance - Boss#8 - Byblos[/ame]

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

YM, we don't have to go into the f Enspells and Mystic Knight Sword magic stuff again do we.

Enspells add some elemental damage to melee damage, Sword Magic would turn the sword into the spell itself.

But I doubt its happening at any rate, just making the distiniction again.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

I think the distinction is clear, BBQ: One has happened, and may happen yet again (should the planets and Pluto align), and the other is like heck never happening.

Edit: What I had tried to go for for my point was this: Malacite was hoping for something that was by nature broken (par for the course), but he had just said "sword magic," which was a bit more general, and could apply to Enspells as well. His "sword magic" is obviously never going to happen, whereas the Enspells II RDMs have been asking for ever since long before they were in the dats, are in the aforementioned dats now, for whatever that's worth.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Yes, but there's lots of stuff in the dats that aren't in the game. SE had best tread carefully with new enspells and hopefully that JA is linked to a way of balancing them.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Like those wyvern breaths ^ _ ^ and SE did say at fan fest they were looking to expand the wyvern's role in battle...


And just for the record, "Sword Magic" is what it was originally called in FFV and it came first. Enspells are based on it (durr) but not the same thing.

I myself am very doubtful it'll ever get added but the day it does I will jump for joy and abandon all other jobs forever >.>


In the mean time I can always just boot up FFV on my DS and go nuts.

[Karinya]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

At the same time, they've made EXPing too damn easy on melees and BLMs are still forced to go out and solo. Some may put a positive spin on it and say they like soloing, but the game went the opposite way for years before that and even with the lowered resistance of SC damage, people still do not skillchain.

There are two main problems with high level exp IMO: merits and endgame gear aren't reflected in exp calculations (fight like 80, get exp like 75), and lowbie mobs are worth too much exp to high level characters (you call that a vt?). (Family weaknesses don't help either, but mamool ja are not a particularly weak family and that doesn't stop MJSP from being a pretty sick camp.)

They lowballed mission difficulty as well. ToA wasn't hard until you got to Amnaf and Alexander. Better late than never, but it shouldn't have come that late at all. WotG missions are outright braindead so far.

We've only seen the early ones. All expansion missions start out with easy/low level ones, except CoP which started out with level capped but still tough ones. SE has apparently decided not to repeat the CoP approach, which I for one find disappointing, but it's entirely predictable.

The current WotG missions aren't any more braindead than ZM4-6 or early AUMs with parties of 75s. Like the RotZ and ToAU mission lines, I expect the fights designed to make 75s actually pay attention to what they're doing to come at the end of the storyline.

So I think they're fine on job adjustments, new content and minor fixes. They do a pretty good job on gear, though the gear situation with SCH is still pretty abysmal. They really painted themselves into a corner with gear by making the job almost too good in terms of JAs. But even that is a minor concern to me.

I think they should make any gear that's available to WHM, BLM and RDM to SCH. (I.e. if all three of those jobs can use it, SCH can use it.) I think that would include Zenith, Yigit, Nashira, Goliard, and Hadean, which seems like a pretty decent selection. (Possibly they should also get Morrigan's, because it seems rather harsh to screw them out of Salvage entirely.) SCH mortarboard + dalmatica (or morrigan's) would be pretty nice, but RDM can already combine their AF2 hat with dalmatica or morrigan's, and anyway, endgame gear is supposed to have some awesomeness to it.

My main concern is that with EXP and Missions, they've listened to players too much. Sadly, as far as EXP goes, there's just no going back. People would have kittens if getting EXP wasn't was easy as it was now.

I think they could fix the balance of high level exp, if they really wanted to. At least as far as making different (reasonable) party setups have something close to similar exp rates.

But that doesn't excuse the lack of present mission difficultly. I'm fine with RoZ and CoP missions getting tweaked as most players are years past that content now, but current missions should not be as easy as they are.

Like I said above, we've only seen the first and easiest of the WotG missions.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

First missions aren't exactly always easy.

Even if the ZM4 fight was easy, at the time, it meant going through two zones with people varying from 60-75. Den of Rancor is still pretty nasty.

ZM5 was just absurdly long.

ZM6 was a formidable fight and is really only "easy" now because we all know th drill.

ToA was just one big pile of LOL til Amnaf (or Gessho if you didn't manaburn him). Only "hard" parts aside from that were finding people smart enough not to aggro the imps and on the way to The Ashu Talif CSes and fights.

Personally, I don't think any mission should be easy just because they're early missions, especially when they are new. If other missions were treated like CoP missions, it would at least force people to consider a bit of preparation before going in.

If there's anything to draw from the WotG missions and quests, we've already hit the middle of the story just based on where the timeline is going. I don't know if we'll be joining Exenmille further on his little outing, but the story is headed toward a major event and while I've not finished the current Bastok storyline, the other two leave us undoing two other signifigant events.

That means the journey to the Northland is not too far off, that is, unless the story diverges in some time-paradox kinda way.

And that's nothing to say of other time-travelling meddlers.

I just hope there will be some bite to the new missions, but I'll probably leave satisfied with story and disappointed with the difficulty.

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

I just hope there will be some bite to the new missions, but I'll probably leave satisfied with story and disappointed with the difficulty.

Same here. And Gessho wasn't that bad even if with a standard set up. Just need to watch out for his Mijin Gakure but otherwise he's not that hard if you know the strategy. I went 1/1 on him (though Mijin damn near killed us)

[Karinya]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Another thing to consider in mission difficulty: how much gear and merits do you have? Even the missions designed for 75s are normally designed for *new* 75s, so that you don't have to do 3 years of Dynamis and Limbus and 6 months of meriting just to finish a mission storyline.

Which means that if you *do* have a bunch of merits and several years worth of endgame gear, and so do all your party members, you tend to kind of blow through stuff that's designed for basic 75s. (Or in other words, if you regularly hang out with people that have no trouble with Kirin - do you seriously expect mission mobs to be *harder* than Kirin?)

Probably when we see WotG endgame HNMs they'll make AV, Odin and PW look like pathetic wimps... but it's kind of much to expect that difficulty level from a storyline mission, which, after all, SE intends anyone to be able to complete whether or not they have teh ub3r l00tz.

And I went 1/1 on Snoll Tzar, Tenzen and Promathia among others - from the mission storyline that people complained so much about, SE seems afraid to approach the same length or difficulty of missions ever again. Going 1/1 just means you had a smooth first run; any fight that you can win on the tenth run you could have won on the first run if events had gone your way. There are people that go 1/1 on RDM Maat for crying out loud, it doesn't make him a pushover. 1/1 gives you less perspective on the difficulty of the fight because your limited amount of experience may not be typical of everything that *could* happen in that fight (which is exactly the point that always gets raised on RDM Maat threads).

[Malacite]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

1/1 gives you less perspective on the difficulty of the fight because your limited amount of experience may not be typical of everything that *could* happen in that fight (which is exactly the point that always gets raised on RDM Maat threads).

I don't know that I agree with that, at least not completely. I went 1/1 on pretty much every CoP fight save for Mea and Promathia but that doesn't mean they were a breeze (well, OK tenzen was a joke giving up at about 40% HP wtf...)

You have to make the distinction. I've 1/1 most of my Maat fights (got boned on THF because steal failed both times - _ -) but BRD and SAM came very close. Going 1/1 does not equate easy fight, it just means you won on your first go around.

As you cited, there are RDM's who've gone 1/1 on Maat. Some of them probably got lucky with sleep, others likely barely won by the skin of their teeth which is my point.

[Kirsten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Here's hoping the new merit JA for Dancers are raise-related. Raise1 and Raise2 for further meriting etc. Or even a ReRaise would be great. Anyhoo, will the December Update please include Dancers' dance moves NOT be affected by Heraldic Imps' screaming attack ( is that a glitch or something ? ). I simply have never got a party invite as dancer at high level simply because Caerdavae Mire is soooo anti-Dancer. I guess Dancer has to campaign battle all the way to 75 or do level synch parties ( hmmm level synch is a double edge sword XD ).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

Part of me is scared that "DNC Raise" suggestion might be heard, given that SE was dumb enough to add -enmity stratagems to SCH. Giving DNC a form of Raise would be just as utterly worthless. We got plenty of jobs out there that can cover raise, if you only invited a DNC to heal you, that's your PT's problem.

I don't want to know what kind of TP would have to be used to raise someone, but I'm sure whatever amount it was, it would be a complete waste.

[Ziero]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

There are two main problems with high level exp IMO: merits and endgame gear aren't reflected in exp calculations (fight like 80, get exp like 75), and lowbie mobs are worth too much exp to high level characters (you call that a vt?). (Family weaknesses don't help either, but mamool ja are not a particularly weak family and that doesn't stop MJSP from being a pretty sick camp.)

Actually, they're not only reflected, they're enhanced. Seriously, why do you think ToAU is the only area to grant an Exp boost to kills? ToAU mobs are meant to be burned. It's why they have low HP/Def and hi repop rates. They mimic the way Weapons(low defense, high offense) in sky work only have a much shorter respawn timer so camps can reach those absurdly high chains. It's something most jobs can participate in, with the exception of Blm and Smn, and dramatically reduces one of the biggest time sinks in this game. And I'm saying this as someone who *hates* exping with others.

I think they should make any gear that's available to WHM, BLM and RDM to SCH. (I.e. if all three of those jobs can use it, SCH can use it.) I think that would include Zenith, Yigit, Nashira, Goliard, and Hadean, which seems like a pretty decent selection. (Possibly they should also get Morrigan's, because it seems rather harsh to screw them out of Salvage entirely.) SCH mortarboard + dalmatica (or morrigan's) would be pretty nice, but RDM can already combine their AF2 hat with dalmatica or morrigan's, and anyway, endgame gear is supposed to have some awesomeness to it.

I'll agree that Sch getting cheated out of gear from endgame content sucks. Dnc is in the same way because there's just not much for them to get. There's nothing in Sky or Limbus or Salvage for them, no abjurations or anything either. Which is a shame cause unlike Sch who's almost overpowered as is, Dnc could really use some nice gear.

First missions aren't exactly always easy.

The only hard "first mission" fights are from CoP. But that entire expansion and storyline is an example of pure masocism because so much of it is purely done to get in your way. The amount of useless NMs and BCs and the absurd amount of running back and forth, criss crossing the world for a two second CS that helps in absolutely no way, and sheer unforgiving nature of some of these fights is down right ridiculous. While in a way the punishing nature of CoP is great, it's also a deterent for people who haven't done them yet and can't find help for them. CoP is the only mission chain with Exp rewards and you still have to pull teeth to get people to help you out.

On the other hand, RotZ and ToAU are laughable mission chains where the only hard parts are at the end of the story. Which, imo, is how it should be. The final fights should be the hardest ones. Which, again, is something CoP does differently because One to be Feared is *still* a bitch of a mission.

ToA was just one big pile of LOL til Amnaf (or Gessho if you didn't manaburn him). Only "hard" parts aside from that were finding people smart enough not to aggro the imps and on the way to The Ashu Talif CSes and fights.

My first time attempting the Gessho fight was with 2 LS mates and three pickups. We went 0/7 and tried everything we could. A week later I went in with full LS friends, and beat him on out dry run without using 2 hours or any deaths. Both groups had similar set ups, but the experience was completely different. Long story short, there's always something to be said about player skill for these things.

(got boned on THF because steal failed both times - _ -)

Was Thf your first job fighting Maat? Because if it wasn't, then you can steal-win. If you've beaten him on another job, you have to melee Thf Maat for the win. Which, imo, is a pain in the freaking ass.

[Mezlo]

Re: December Version Update Preview (11/17/2008)

I did ToA with my static of 3+ years, we went 1/1 on all of the fights all the way through Alexander. IMO Alexander was the only fight that was HARD, the others were meh... It was a good storyline though... In the upcoming missions, I'm hoping for the same good storyline, and a bit harder missions as everyone else has said...