≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

[eticket109]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

That's funny I remember a few of us were trying to make that same point pages ago and no one was going for it. Well, welcome aboard everyone.

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

And you're saying people wouldn't complain then, Lmnop? And how is any of that which you suggested a challenge? unless you're talking about people who hardly do any thinking playing this game, in which case I totally agree, still, upon finding that "weakness", it would end up becoming another lolHNM and I don't think anyone can disagree, matching Skillchains is not a challenge (its more of a challenge to get people to use them nowadays) using a 2 hour only requires the press of a macro, doing it at a precise time is also not a challenge, at least I wouldn't be thrilled to try a second time if that were the big secret, and if the secret was to equip the 7 torques, if it were that simple, I would stab the eyes of whoever designed that "challenge". If the challenge is only in finding the secret, once it's found, the challenge is gone, for everyone else too, not just to the people who found the secret first. I say let SE make their damn game, complain all you want, it will never be perfect the way you want it.

I may have said the word challenge 10 times too much.

While it is a fact that 18 hours is unthinkable (I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do anything for 18 hours straight, let alone play a game), just because someone took 18 hours to FAIL at doing something doesn't mean that's what it takes.

Sage Sundi comments on AV saying he may take up to 18 hours to kill (who knows what he really said? i really hope the person who took the notes quoting Sage Sundi isn't having cold sweats in front of his computer right now), people fight PW for 18 hours and give up. Am I missing something here? Shouldn't they have fought AV instead of PW? I can has logic? And they changed AV after people complained about PW? From someone else's perspective, this fan was already covered in shit, and now they turned it on.

Now, on Petfoodalpha's website, there's this little banner saying "2 hours is enough for AV". We get to choose now...? If we get to choose, where's the poll booth? Do we have to have any game-designer experience to place our vote?

SE had a good deal with AV, I think. If they said it took 18 hours and if that was indeed accurate, I personally doubt they wanted a single person to do something for 18 hours straight, it was most probably meant to be done in groups, but people want rewards for doing things and they want them now, so instead of changing the rewards they changed the fight because that's what people were complaining about.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

SE had a good deal with AV, I think. If they said it took 18 hours and if that was indeed accurate, I personally doubt they wanted a single person to do something for 18 hours straight, it was most probably meant to be done in groups, but people want rewards for doing things and they want them now, so instead of changing the rewards they changed the fight because that's what people were complaining about.

If anything it just highlights how ridiculously out of touch with their playerbase they are. The interesting point to the adjustment to me is they made this change based on NA / EU press because I have yet to hear of any Japanese players complaining about the duration of the fight. Does this mean the subscription numbers have fallen so low on the JP side that the NA population is now the main playerbase and, as such, calling the shots on game design.

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

Do we ever hear the Japanese say anything?

[Ziero]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

And you're saying people wouldn't complain then, Lmnop? And how is any of that which you suggested a challenge? unless you're talking about people who hardly do any thinking playing this game, in which case I totally agree, still, upon finding that "weakness", it would end up becoming another lolHNM and I don't think anyone can disagree, matching Skillchains is not a challenge (its more of a challenge to get people to use them nowadays) using a 2 hour only requires the press of a macro, doing it at a precise time is also not a challenge, at least I wouldn't be thrilled to try a second time if that were the big secret, and if the secret was to equip the 7 torques, if it were that simple, I would stab the eyes of whoever designed that "challenge". If the challenge is only in finding the secret, once it's found, the challenge is gone, for everyone else too, not just to the people who found the secret first. I say let SE make their damn game, complain all you want, it will never be perfect the way you want it.

I may have said the word challenge 10 times too much.

While it is a fact that 18 hours is unthinkable (I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do anything for 18 hours straight, let alone play a game), just because someone took 18 hours to FAIL at doing something doesn't mean that's what it takes.

Sage Sundi comments on AV saying he may take up to 18 hours to kill (who knows what he really said? i really hope the person who took the notes quoting Sage Sundi isn't having cold sweats in front of his computer right now), people fight PW for 18 hours and give up. Am I missing something here? Shouldn't they have fought AV instead of PW? I can has logic? And they changed AV after people complained about PW? From someone else's perspective, this fan was already covered in shit, and now they turned it on.

Now, on Petfoodalpha's website, there's this little banner saying "2 hours is enough for AV". We get to choose now...? If we get to choose, where's the poll booth? Do we have to have any game-designer experience to place our vote?

SE had a good deal with AV, I think. If they said it took 18 hours and if that was indeed accurate, I personally doubt they wanted a single person to do something for 18 hours straight, it was most probably meant to be done in groups, but people want rewards for doing things and they want them now, so instead of changing the rewards they changed the fight because that's what people were complaining about.

While I will admit that once the "secret" is discovered, more shells will be able to kill it. If it still on it's own presented an incredible challenge, one that couldn't be zerg'd, it would still be limited to the best of the best.

And as for that PW thing, for the most part, by that groups own admission, it was mainly the same 18 people with a few others coming and going, that stayed for the entire fight without any rest. And that's why they failed. If they had a second alliance come in to do the main work, though they wouldn't have gotten the credit for the win they still would have won. So I'll agree that these things were intended to be done in groups, which could be seen in the fact that AV's drops aren't EX. Now as for why they changed AV and PW, it's because AV's fights were just as long and if it could happen on one it could happen on the other. Despite, of course, the fact that groups have gone up to 30 hours on AV and won without reporting any negative physical side effects.

I honestly don't believe AV and PW were mobs made specifically to drop great items, because to be blunt AV's items aren't all that incredible. They're nice and all, but none are as "game changing" as things dropped from other mobs who do get killed daily. I mean, for a fight (that was) as difficult and long as AV to drop, well, many meh items, it certainly can't be just about the "tangible" rewards.

[Lmnop]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

Re: Balfree - Just having 7 torques would be enough to piss me off if it made AV easy. But if it gave an advantage, meh. It'd at least be interesting (though annoying with some of those drop rates). But I wouldn't want it to be the key to victory.

Timing and all that jazz? Sure, you can say it's not "really a challenge" or whatever. But it's not like we're playing Halo, here. Have you ever fought Ixion? He's very hard. He can try your patience. He makes you a nervous wreck. And even though our WHMs and PLDs are manic while we fight, they always say the same thing when he's dead: "Wow. That's the most fun I've had in years!" Not that Ixion's a perfect mob. As a melee, he drives me insane (yayyyy disposable SAWS bitch). But at least he's extremely challenging and even if you know "the trick", you still haven't won.

Re: Eticket109 - That was back before news of KC Drks taking it down like everything else. It was just postulating and whining. It's great that you were able to anticipate S-E's failure. And I'm sorry that I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

I hope this feeling of victory is enough for you that the irritation at S-E's ball-dropping won't sting so hard.

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

I think my point is mostly this: Let SE decide, I never fought any of these enemies, I simply have an unbiased opinion, but if there's one thing I know for sure is, whenever people complain, it's almost never properly phrased or its something personal, and then SE changes things and other people get pissed off at changes they didn't ask for that broke the game for them, this is more SE's fault than that of the players but it's not like we're helping.

Like you said, they made Ixion a proper challenge, so they're not always wrong, I think people just need to leave the programming to SE and treat FFXI as a consumer, not a share holder.

What are the reports on PW? What did they change about that one? Just curious since that's the one that brought this up.

I should make this my signature: "AV was meant to be killed my many groups, rewards and titles will be given to people in the LS the same way it happens with all other HNMs: points system." I still believe that to be accurate.

[Ziero]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

I should make this my signature: "AV was meant to be killed my many groups, rewards and titles will be given to people in the LS the same way it happens with all other HNMs: points system." I still believe that to be accurate.

While it is accurate, I will admit it's not exactly fair. Rewards I can understand being limited, but they could at least create a new way to obtain the title for everyone involved in the fight.

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

So if SE takes the title off AV, all is well?

Oh no, the fix was so easy...

[eticket109]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

Do we ever hear the Japanese say anything?

It depends on where you look. Elmer at BG actually compiled a huge list of Q&As for japanese gamers and posted the responses. He also posted a number of japanese responses to the recent update and 'fix' announcements by SE. For the most part, their thinking is much in line with everyone else's. Though I found it humorous that one of them made a comment about how nothing happens when japanese players complain, but as soon as the NA complained about PW, they fixed it.

Re: Eticket109 - That was back before news of KC Drks taking it down like everything else. It was just postulating and whining. It's great that you were able to anticipate S-E's failure. And I'm sorry that I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

I hope this feeling of victory is enough for you that the irritation at S-E's ball-dropping won't sting so hard.

wow... are you serious? lmao ease up just a little bit there. step back from the internet and breathe a few times, maybe take a walk around the block or something to cool down a bit.

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

It depends on where you look. Elmer at BG actually compiled a huge list of Q&As for japanese gamers and posted the responses. He also posted a number of japanese responses to the recent update and 'fix' announcements by SE. For the most part, their thinking is much in line with everyone else's. Though I found it humorous that one of them made a comment about how nothing happens when japanese players complain, but as soon as the NA complained about PW, they fixed it.

I noticed that and found it pretty enlightening, seeing as I play with Japanese players very often.

But other than that... gotta say "meh".

[Lmnop]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

wow... are you serious? lmao ease up just a little bit there. step back from the internet and breathe a few times, maybe take a walk around the block or something to cool down a bit.

I assume this is in response to this:

I hope this feeling of victory is enough for you that the irritation at S-E's ball-dropping won't sting so hard.

To which I can only say: I'm sorry that my facetious humor fails on message boards.

Since you were right and S-E didn't satisfy a bunch of us (admittedly too) needy customers, there's really nothing else for me to do but say "Well, that sucks. Back to trying to find some BLMs to burn Brass Borer for me."

[Armando]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

What makes the most curious is:

How many people who are complaining about the state of the Absolute Virtue issue really had plans to fight him at some point or another?

[eticket109]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

actually it had more to do with the...

It's great that you were able to anticipate S-E's failure. And I'm sorry that I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

It has nothing to do with anticipating them failing or not. Logically it never made sense. You can't take an NM and condense its fight down to a 10th of what it was before without losing most if not all of it's originality. A few of us brought up the fact that it just didn't feel as unique any more and we got blown off for it. I wasn't gloating or cheering 'I was right so suck it!', I was simply saying that it turned out about as bad as some of us thought it would.

Don't give me the 'I gave SE the benefit of the doubt' tripe either like I'm on some sort of witch hunt. I defend SE and their policies rather vigorously. This change just seemed like a panic move on their part that wasn't well thought out. I have a feeling that today's maintenance won't improve things much either.

In the end, I just want an AV fight that more than 1% of the players have a shot at.

What makes the most curious is:

How many people who are complaining about the state of the Absolute Virtue issue really had plans to fight him at some point or another?

It really depends on what happens today, but our first attempt is scheduled for this weekend. We're teaming up with two other shells, so it should be interesting to say the least. SE may be getting exactly what they want out of this after all now that I think about it. lol

[Balfree]

Re: ≪Sep. 9, 2008 (JST) Update Details≫

I gotta say I have no plans to ever fight Absolute Virtue, who knows though.

Its just another discussion, I'm more bothered at SE's ability to do so many things right and then so many things wrong.