Update Details

[Sabaron]

Re: Update Details

/hand up

Though most of my merit invites are from friends or people I've merited with before because the average person putting together a party is going to take a random rdm they don't know over a random whm they don't know for a TP burn.

I have a tendency to put WHMs in TP burns (Yes, I know it's a sin considering I'm a RDM), but I like Cure V and Raise III They generally don't run out of MP in a good group.

[Marquisxion]

Re: Update Details

I'm going to be 100k down as all my flowers will have died

/wah

[Ziero]

Re: Update Details

Diabolos being easier to access than Alex is very very debatable. More people having BOTHERED to go through COP to get sea doesn't make it EASIER.

And whoever said projection was a voluntary affair? It's completely possible that a Summoner could project an avatar without an agreement; with the consequence of being unable to control it. That would be a rather interesting element to introduce, really.

Um, Diabolos is far, far, FAR, FAR easier to get to then Alexander. Seriously, he's like the third or fourth 'big' mission in CoP and once you're past that you can get to do the Avatar Prime fight.

And you must know absolutely zero about how Summoners gain their Avatars. Seriously, they're called Blood Pacts for a reason. The Avatars willingling offer you their power to help you defend Vana D'iel.

And this:

With something like Bahamut, it would know very well what the situation was, because it DOES have intelligence. It could use Giga Flare on everything in the area (including your party), scoff and fly away, decide to help you fight, or backfire and start assaulting your party. It could instantly drain the SMN's MP and leave, or it could decide to perpetuate itself and leave the SMN's MP bar (and cease to be it's pet) entirely. Add something very random and uncontrollable into the mix.

As an example of the above, imagine you're having a hard time killing something. To try to kill it dead, your SMN takes a gamble and calls Bahamut. He breaks off the SMN and perpetuates himself, and becomes another mob you have to fight (very much like if a BST fails charm) or run away from.

Is an idiotic idea because it would serve no purpose to Summon Bahamut if he'd suddenly turn on you and start trying to kill you. Seriously, in what situation would you want to risk having calling a baby Bahamut if there's any chance at all that you'll have to fight him while fighting another mob.

Yes, I know. That's how we got on the subject, remember, buddy? I see no reason to say right now that it's impossible that they're actually going to be making it possible to have those armors (as in, dats, not the specific pieces) equipped at the same time.

...do you know what JSE means?

As for the update itself, I noticed a few things that were messed up. First off, while doing Ronfa Campaign, the Orcs were...short. All of em, including the NM were shrunken to an almost adorable size. The NM itself (Poisonhand) was about as tall as a mid sized Hume and the rest were about Mithra height. I'll try and get pics of this tomorrow.

Also, and if it's not a glitch then it's something I was mistaken about, but there was a Rolanberry Fields Campaign that just would not end. I was always under the assumption that Campaigns had a time limit like Besieged, but this thing went on a good three hours. The Turtles just kept coming and coming and they were pissed. The Vhuud Vanguard alone attacked three seperate times. And on top of that, now it seems you can't stop a bomb from exploding against the fort because they blow up as soon as they drop. So the only way to stop Beastmen Bombers is to kill em before they get there, and we all know how easy that is....

It also seems Ixion is a zone hoping, random spawn HNM....of sorts. But right now from what I hear, no one can fight it because the bastard runs away at flee speeds. So there must be something more to him then simple find-and-claim.

I also heard mention of problems with Sneak Attack, though I didn't really notice anything myself...I did see I was doing lower dmg all of last night. But I chalked that up to beefed up beastmen.

And the new Campaign op ranking system is both win and lose. All the ones you need parties to do are the ones no one does...so they're the ones that are the best to do...except you need parties to do them. I think that sort of defeats one of the best parts of the Campaign Ops in that before you could do the easy ones for some quick Exp on any level job. It wasn't a lot before, but now their rewards will be nerfed to the point where it's not even worth wasting credits on.

[Feba]

Re: Update Details

Is an idiotic idea because it would serve no purpose to Summon Bahamut if he'd suddenly turn on you and start trying to kill you.

Tell that to, oh, I don't know, every COR ever.

...do you know what JSE means?

Did you read the sentence? At all?

[Ziero]

Re: Update Details

Tell that to, oh, I don't know, every COR ever.

Did you read the sentence? At all?

Cor rolls don't disengage and tear your face off. All they do when they bust, which is exceedingly rare, especially at endgame when you have the Merit JAs, is lower the stats of the Cor. So when that roll suddenly becomes an AoE spewing dragon in the middle of your BC fight and it proceeds to annihilate your entire party, then you can compare that to your idea.

And I'll take that as a no.

[Feba]

Re: Update Details

Cor rolls don't disengage and tear your face off.

BST pets do.

For that matter, sleep resists can easily kill a mage with the hate they generate. And a mage dying can kill a party.

But BSTs still charm things, mages still sleep things, and CORs still roll. And why? Because the danger of NOT doing anything outweighs the danger of doing SOMETHING. Likewise would be the case for uncontrollable summons-- they're a gamble with a great possibilities and great risks.

Would Bahamut ALWAYS flip out and kill you? No. It could even use some method of determining how likely he is to help you, like Tonberry hate (the more often you project him, the more annoyed he gets) But would he flip out and kill you often enough to cement the fact that he's not your friend? Surely.

And I'll take that as a no.

Well, it's pretty clearly not, so I'm going to take this as an "I'm illiterate"

[Malacite]

Re: Update Details

Also, remember that Bahamut had previously made a pact with the Kuluu, so he can always make a pact with us

[Ziero]

Re: Update Details

BST pets do.

For that matter, sleep resists can easily kill a mage with the hate they generate. And a mage dying can kill a party.

But BSTs still charm things, mages still sleep things, and CORs still roll. And why? Because the danger of NOT doing anything outweighs the danger of doing SOMETHING. Likewise would be the case for uncontrollable summons-- they're a gamble with a great possibilities and great risks.

Would Bahamut ALWAYS flip out and kill you? No. It could even use some method of determining how likely he is to help you, like Tonberry hate (the more often you project him, the more annoyed he gets) But would he flip out and kill you often enough to cement the fact that he's not your friend? Surely.

Well, it's pretty clearly not, so I'm going to take this as an "I'm illiterate"

Bst's can also try to recharm things 15 seconds after their first attempt. But with your idea, If you summon Bahamut and he goes AWOL, you have no choice but to fight or run.

And sleeping a mob is a totally different scenarion then summoning a creature out of no where then having it rip your face off in the middle of a fight. Unless you randomly sleep mobs who aren't even involved in the fight.

And again, Cor rolls only weaken the cor for a matter of minutes.

Seriously, if there was any chance that Bahamut could "flip out and kill you" after summoning him, why would you cast him? Answer, they wouldn't.

Bsts can charm and recharm almost instantly and repeatedly, Mages can "build hate" through sleeping...but that's still not pulling a monster out of no where. Unless you suck.

And Cor rolls don't kill.

It's a bad idea, so just give up.

Also, remember that Bahamut had previously made a pact with the Kuluu, so he can always make a pact with us

His 'pact' was to wipe out humanity. I doubt he'll just change his mind.

Also, in other news

The Sandworm eats you and the only way to claim Ixion is to throw dead Pixies at it.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Update Details

Feba's good at arguing. I don't know how CORs and BSTs got pulled into a summoning argument, but he pulled it off.

And I refuse to throw pixies. I might throw some Taru WHMs, but never pixies.

[Taskmage]

Re: Update Details

Bahamut respects strength. It's only due to the tremendous power and will displayed by the CoP fellowship that he's held off destroying humanity for as long as he has. I wouldn't say it's against his nature to submit to a pact with a child of Altana because he is not, imo, anti-humanity. Like Diabolos did, he just has no faith in the lesser creatures of Vana'diel, including himself, to stand against the tides of fate he's been watching build for ages. Ignoring the mechanical feasibility of implementing Bahamut as a summon, I belive he would enter a pact with a summoner but only if he were shown a level of power capable of defying the gods.

[Feba]

Re: Update Details

Bst's can also try to recharm things 15 seconds after their first attempt.

Not when they die. And if that charm fails, it just continues to build; as I recall charm gets quite a bit of enmity to boot.

And sleeping a mob is a totally different scenarion then summoning a creature out of no where then having it rip your face off in the middle of a fight.

Not really. You're still doing an action which is potentially dangerous because it's a better choice than the alternative.

It's a bad idea, so just give up.

And you're a poopiehead. Refute that.

[Ziero]

Re: Update Details

Not when they die. And if that charm fails, it just continues to build; as I recall charm gets quite a bit of enmity to boot.

Not really. You're still doing an action which is potentially dangerous because it's a better choice than the alternative.

And you're a poopiehead. Refute that.

If you're going to die from repeatedly failing to charm something you either started with no HP, are charming something you shouldn't be charming or just plain suck.

And again, sleeping a mob is nothing like randomly calling a creature that will potentially attack you. If you're sleeping a Mob it's either already attacked you or will attack you shortly. Not sleeping it won't stop it from trying to tear your face off. Hell, it's "potentially dangerous" to voke a mob but people do that all the time.

The main difference here is that you're not brining in an unneccessary risk by pulling in a new, potentially dangerous monster into the mix...unless you suck and sleep the wrong mob. It's not about the risk of pissing off the mob so Enmity has nothing to do with this idea. It's the addition of a possibly aggressive monster to a situation where you don't want more things to fight.

And at least I can admit when I'm wrong.

[Omni]

Re: Update Details

wait... what? cors kill?
GTFO

taru edit: actually you're right. we do kill. allowing blms to drop continuous unresisted nukes on mobs gets them eaten.

[Sevv]

Re: Update Details

On the entire Alexander issue, you fight the machine Alexander inhabits. Unlike the majority of the avatar's we have come into contact with, the TOAU Avatars actually need a host, to have a presence in the world. Yes, I know that Pheonix is in the game under similar story lines.

[Feba]

Re: Update Details

You are bringing an risk to yourself, as a mage, by casting sleep. That hate can get you killed; and if your party is relying on you for support they will die as well. It's not unnecessary, though, because the ALTERNATIVE of NOT sleeping it and it killing your party is higher.

Likewise, if you're in a bad situation, projecting Bahamut could be the difference between living and wiping. And hey, if Bahamut flips out and kills you, it's not a huge deal because you were probably going to die anyway. Somewhat like when a SMN burns through Astral Flow to try to kill something; if it doesn't die they're out of MP and pretty much screwed. On the other hand, the chance of Astral Flow saving the day is good compared to the alternative of it getting you killed.