New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

[Icemage]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

all goes back to greed if you look at it

your saying melee are greedy because they wany cures?
then turn around and say that you dont want to cure because that will get you killed (witch is not 100% probability) and hurt your EXP? That is being just as greedy if you look at it.

Oh, give me a break.

Why do you want cures? So you don't get KO'd and lose precious time hitting things/lose XP/AN for KO.

Why do mages not want to cure? Because they increase their chance of getting KO'd/lose precious time hitting things/lose XP/AN.

Why is mages being "greedy" worse than melees being greedy?

MP flow isn't the big issue, though it's also a problem. Enmity is. I can cast Protect I on you and it'll land me on the enmity list of every monster that you've aggro'd (especially if you've somehow managed to get on the hate list of some cute thing like one of the Orc NMs, or a Pieste).

There could be ten NPCs beating on that target, but they'll come looking for YOU, and then when you're dead, they'll come looking for ME (remember, you're advocating WHM/SCH, so my defensive capabilities on WHM consist of Repose and a whole lot of nothing else).

You say the risk of KO is low? I can tell you from painful personal experience that it is VERY high in most campaign battles because so many melees fold like paper dolls when attacked by a NM or multiple enemies.


Icemage

[Raydeus]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

In Kailea's world:

-Mages have infinite MP and SCH gives you an extra 1000 mp per minute to waste.
-That allows for mages to cure each and every melee that's getting hit by aoe 5 times in a minute.
-Because of course Mages can magically see the HP values of every melee in Campaign while they (the mages) are locked-on meleeing a mob.
-Mages can also get notes automatically regardless of being KO'd or resting MP.
-Emnity doesn't exist.
-Mage's duty is to support everyone so the Altana forces win the battle against teh evil!
-...While melee get 1000 more xp and notes per fight.


Did I forget anything?

[Taermus]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Well, this thread has pretty much proven to me that provoking has been the wrong move all along.

Next time I see a mage fighting a turtle all alone I'll just leave him at it so he gets more xp.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

It's just mages afraid of realizing they're mages. Apart from Black Mage's and Summoner's, least they have a good excuse.

This is just a typical Forum War between people that thinking typing up the same thing over and over makes their argument better, and those that actually know what they're talking about.

Wait, arguments? They don't even have arguments.

Healing magic and Mage in the same post leads to stupid replies such as:

-Mages have infinite MP and SCH gives you an extra 1000 mp per minute to waste.
-That allows for mages to cure each and every melee that's getting hit by aoe 5 times in a minute.
-Because of course Mages can magically see the HP values of every melee in Campaign while they (the mages) are locked-on meleeing a mob.
-Mages can also get notes automatically regardless of being KO'd or resting MP.
-Emnity doesn't exist.
-Mage's duty is to support everyone so the Altana forces win the battle against teh evil!
-...While melee get 1000 more xp and notes per fight.

Hello? Can you say IGNORANT. And that's to all you people that keep complaining about fulltime healing when no one's telling you to. Excuse me, but you're making a wrong point. It's ok now. Because you know what? There's a thing called "Mog House" in the game, where you can "Job Change" to a different job. Really, I promise it's there, just log in once in a while and go see.

And let none of them big bullies ever associate you to Healing Magic again. Even though your current job has A rating in Healing Magic skill. But that's off-topic.

[Icemage]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

^
Walk a mile in my WHM shoes before you throw stones, Kittyneko. Your only 75 mage job is RDM, and believe you me, Campaign is completely different between WHM and RDM, even with the best available gears.

My RDM out-earns my WHM about 3:2 per battle on average.

P.S. I would never expect anyone to provoke a monter off of me in Campaign. If I got the attention of a monster, it's because I was prepared for it (or should have been).


Icemage

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

I have leveled a WHM75 as well. Can't say I enjoyed it, nor did I ever take it to campaign.. but knowing the job, and knowing how it's like to play Red Mage in Campaign (without using all the available melee gears), I get a pretty good picture.

There have been given different sollutions in order to regain MP as White Mage, in a post earlier in this thread.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

I have leveled a WHM75 as well. Can't say I enjoyed it, nor did I ever take it to campaign.. but knowing the job, and knowing how it's like to play Red Mage in Campaign (without using all the available melee gears), I get a pretty good picture.

WHM geared for DD--Reverend Mail, /NIN, haste gear, etc.--and so played, can get much more exp than a healer WHM in Campaign Battle with less risk. Heck, can even skip /NIN, use a Genbu Shield, and still far outdo healer WHM.

This isn't a WHM player's problem--it isn't a problem at all. This is just how the campaign system is designed; love it or hate it, it's how it works.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

No one's telling you to be a fulltime healer.

Your DD gears don't make your Cure 3 heal 100 less HP.

[Empedocles]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

You say the risk of KO is low? I can tell you from painful personal experience that it is VERY high in most campaign battles because so many melees fold like paper dolls when attacked by a NM or multiple enemies.
Icemage

I think everyone can attest to this. Myself verses Steelbiter Gudrud.... I got smashed within 2 minutes (If it was longer it certainly felt like 2 minutes) with a Redmage friend healing me.

I went back to /NIN after that. No voking in campagin for me.

But seriously folks. Time to close the thread? I haven't seen anything new for a while.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

There have been given different sollutions in order to
regain MP as White Mage

You're kidding, right?

You are kidding about thinking that's the problem, right?

[Karinya]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

It's part of the problem - the amount of curing Kitty and others on this thread want (i.e. significantly more than already goes on - I pointed out about 10 pages ago that people already *do* cure and raise quite a bit, so the whiners wanting MORE cures and raises are, in effect, asking for full-time healing, even if they don't realize it) could only be done by significant resting. Actions that require MP need to provide MUCH more exp/AN per MP expended to make this anywhere near worthwhile.

Aggro is another issue, of course. But even if you don't get aggro from it, curing with anything more than "excess" MP is going to gimp your contribution to the battle, as measured by the game (not by the personal standards of Kitty or anyone else).

[Nuriko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Well, this thread has pretty much proven to me that provoking has been the wrong move all along.

Next time I see a mage fighting a turtle all alone I'll just leave him at it so he gets more xp.

Oh, was that you that woke up a mob I'd slept, then wouldn't even TRY to hold it off me when another mob I'd slept came to join it to flatten me? If it was, at least I have the satisfaction of knowing you were next. I miss the campaign mobs from before, things just hit too fast these days, interrupts galore...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

curing with anything more than "excess" MP is going to gimp your contribution to the battle, as measured by the game (not by the personal standards of Kitty or anyone else).

You guys keep saying this, but I have yet to see any explaination for this claim. Curing for EXP has a cap, but there is no penalty for continued curing, thus, it cannot "gimp" your EXP gain. You might miss a point here or there for stopping to cure instead of doing damage (horror of horrors), but you're not really losing much of anything for tossing out the cure except for MP.

And, again, I'll point out the subjobs you guys love to point out to the rest of us - /DNC and /SCH are very, very efficient in terms of conserving MP or recovering it. While job abilities such as Manifestation and lower Strategem timers do favor SCH main for MP recovery in this event, Alacrity and B+ skill Aspir is available to anyone that subs /SCH. DNC uses TP for Cures, so personal curing could mostly be covered by /DNC, Regen, Blink/SS while actual cure spells could be used on players and NPCs.

So, again mages, why not sub these as you tell the melees to? Seems they hold even more benefit for you. /SCH really lacks some things for melee, but not for WHM or RDM in this context. Melee's better options are /WHM, /RDM, /NIN or /DNC for survival.

And, again, you don't need a reason to help someone. Pointing out that the game doesn't measure curing EXP after you hit the cap doesn't prove anything except that you're an asshole who's thinking about your bottom line.

[Jonastb]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Curing for EXP has a cap, but there is no penalty for continued curing, thus, it cannot "gimp" your EXP gain.

There is also no benefit to curing once you hit the cap. If you had a cap on damage, would you just keep wacking away once you reached the cap. Hell no. And if you say yes you are either an idiot or full of shit.

And the problem isn't the OCCASSIONAL cure, which has been pointed out soooo many times it is ingrained in my head. It is the problem that EVERY melee wants that occassional cure. At that point, it becomes the main job for a WHM to cure everyone. And everyone who has been advocating so adamantly for that occassional cure, are the same ones who get pissed off if that occassional cure doesn't hit them.

99% of the time I campaign as MNK/NIN. Is this my preferred choice, hell no. I want to go MNK/WAR and get the uber damage, pull the 1k+ Asuran Fists for the awesome NON-CAPPED damage for great XP. But guess what, my ass hits the grass if I do that, so I go /NIN to offset some damage.
You know what else I do, stop by my favorite Tag giver, and ask for an instant reraise, because I know WHMs are busy watching themselves and may not have time for me. If I die, I reraise and go see my buddy with the Instant Reraises again to grab another. If the zone is owned by Beastmen, then I need to take this into account before I go out there.

[Murphie]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Why shouldn't you think about your bottom line when you're playing solo, doing perfectly fine by yourself, and when helping others will only hurt your own performance? Do you hand out the gil and seals you get from solo activities to other players? Or are you an asshole who only thinks about your bottom line?

If you're going to cast such ridiculous aspersions on the motivations of other players at least have a reason beyond "This is the way I think things should be and you guys are wrong for disagreeing with me."