New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

[Murphie]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Who said they don't cast spells? Just because they aren't casting them on melee players doesn't mean they aren't making use of their MP. What business is it of your who they cast on if you aren't in a party with them?

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

I've yet to see one melee in this thread say you must full-time cure/raise them.

That's irrelevant. It's the EXPECTATION they will be cured at all which is infuriating, on multiple levels.

its stupid, plain and simple, a mage that does not cast spells?

s-t-u-p-i-d

First of all, as Murphie said, there's no reason to assume they aren't casting spells just because they aren't casting on you. Secondly, even if they didn't cast any spells at all, WHY is that "stupid"?

[Icemage]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Iand Icemage, again you fail to read, where I have said many times, that in campaign, there is no reason why a mage should not melee, it gives more exp, but at the same time, its stupid to sit there and not use your magic to help others out, and help win the fight.

It's stupid to not want to get KO'd when I'm playing a mage job in Campaign that doesn't normally see XP invites? I've already pointed out to you that there is serious risk in casting on other players in Campaign, and you've repeatedly ignored this point.

Until the reward for casting spells on other players outweighs the risk of a KO (which, from personal experience, happens QUITE OFTEN after you cure someone taking enough of a beating to merit assistance), with the attendent loss in down time, XP, plus the time spent recovering MP (weakness drops max MP too, you know), ANY spell you get from a mage is a GIFT, not a RIGHT in Campaign.

They're not being stupid. They're being quite smart; in fact, I'd go so far as to say they're playing it much smarter than any melee who doesn't come prepared to handle themselves in Campaign.


Icemage

[Kailea]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

all goes back to greed if you look at it

your saying melee are greedy because they wany cures?
then turn around and say that you dont want to cure because that will get you killed (witch is not 100% probability) and hurt your EXP? That is being just as greedy if you look at it.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Way to completely avoid the question again, Kailea! You must really be clueless as to why mages should act any way other than however they want outside of a party.

And yes, it's partially greedy; in the same sense that not giving people gil whenever they ask for it is greedy. However, there is nothing mages can do to minimize the risks involved with curing someone. There are plenty melees can do to minimize the need for them to be cured.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

No we are saying the melees are being greedy because most of them won't use a sub that helps them and then expect the mages to do what they could be doing. The reason they don't want to sub a job that can benefit them? Because then they'll be doing what the mages are doing, resting for mp and losing exp...not to mention doing less damage. So they are being greedy with wanting as much exp as possible. On the other hand, the mages are saying that they don't want to be the caretakers to anyone but themselves or party members. Why? The same reason, because they want as much exp as possible just like the melee. So which side is wrong since they both want the same thing? Both? Neither?

[Kailea]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

No we are saying the melees are being greedy because most of them won't use a sub that helps them and then expect the mages to do what they could be doing. The reason they don't want to sub a job that can benefit them? Because then they'll be doing what the mages are doing, resting for mp and losing exp...not to mention doing less damage. So they are being greedy with wanting as much exp as possible. On the other hand, the mages are saying that they don't want to be the caretakers to anyone but themselves or party members. Why? The same reason, because they want as much exp as possible just like the melee. So which side is wrong since they both want the same thing? Both? Neither?

thats the thing, in that, no one is right

I agree, melee should in some way support themselves as should mages melee to get as much exp as possible.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

to get as much exp as possible.

So what the shit have you been bitching about?

[Kailea]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

So what the shit have you been bitching about?

Feba... please do me a big favor... and just shut it -.-

my whole argument was about the mages that did nothing at all but melee and self spell

I have no beef with mages that at least throw a rare cure to a tank/melee in red, because something off happened.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

You're saying that people should go for the maximum possible EXP. That does not include curing other people. Which one is it?

Max EXP for the melees; As much EXP as you can get while still working to help someone else for the mages?

[Nuriko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

On the other hand, the mages are saying that they don't want to be the caretakers to anyone but themselves or party members. Why? The same reason, because they want as much exp as possible just like the melee. So which side is wrong since they both want the same thing? Both? Neither?

Well, there's also the point that tracking HP is a lot easier in PT, so you know at a glance who needs your heals, and just how much.

Honestly, these days I tend to have a fairly constant flow in of MP during Campaign ... sure, Hexa Strike is a nice damage dealer, but Spirit Taker does wonders for getting MP out of meleeing...

[Kailea]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

You're saying that people should go for the maximum possible EXP. That does not include curing other people. Which one is it?

Max EXP for the melees; As much EXP as you can get while still working to help someone else for the mages?

you cant tell me the occasional cure is going to effect a mage that much, I am not talking about constant casting here.......

if your RDM you have refresh
if your WHM or BLM, sub SCH and at 70 you will have Sublimation

so you wont be without a way to get MP back, while meleeing

same goes for melee, sub SCH and at 70 you too wont have a problem, or sub WHM/RDM and bring some yag drinks if you ahve to.

any way you look at it, people mage or melee, have ways to get MP back if they have to, without resting.

this is it for me, I got work tomorrow and its time for me to call it a night.

[Murphie]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

And without having made a solid point once.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

you cant tell me the occasional cure is going to effect a mage that much, I am not talking about constant casting here.......

Did you read Icemage's post at all?!

One cure. Just one Cure--not even Cure II--on a player attacking something will put a mage on another monster's enmity list. Possibly more than one critter's lists.

You can toss out one cure, move away, and three minutes later out of the blue something comes over to whack you. Bringing friends.

Even when MP pool is full, curing players can be risky.

Many players (like me) don't mind the risk, and would toss out cures to random players. But, no way no how am I going to agree with anyone asserting it's mages' duty to cure players in campaign battles.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

you cant tell me the occasional cure is going to effect a mage that much,

Again, dodging the question. Which is it, Kailea? Max EXP for all, or Max EXP for melees and reduced EXP for mages?

And again, as has been pointed out about three dozen times by now, running out of MP is not the goddamn problem.