New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Why? You're easily the single most insulting person in the thread, on either side.

I was commenting on gameplay.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

I was commenting on gameplay.

Saying someone is an idiot or incompetent because you disagree with the way they play their job, when they aren't even advocating it as a viable alternative or anything, is not a matter of gameplay. It's a personal insult.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Didn't say that, discussion ended.
If I did, my intentions for anything near insulting would be because of gameplay or the way of reading a forum and missinterpreting words and statements to cause drama; like you do.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Nice try but I saw the post.

I never said anywhere in any of my posts that I would not cure anyone. I said that I'm not going to be spending my time in the backlines tabbing around curing people and raising people. I'm going to try and get as much exp as you do, which is only fair. If I feel like curing people outside of my PARTY I will do so but there is no way in hell you can expect me to do it. This game is all about parties and if some prideful/lazy melee/tank can't take the time to make a party so they have backup, then its their own fault and no one elses. No one is requirred to cure or raise anyone else since they can do it themselves but choose not to. That is their choice, just as it is my choice whether I will help them or not.

FYI, I am a good whm. I was in a very small but very good ls where I would be the only whm doing Dynamis city runs with less than a full ally to boot. We'd clear them with no problem and only because each and every one of us were good players. So stop flinging your stupid insults at people just because you are on a sinking ship. Come up with some valid reasons as to why:

1) Melee/Tanks can't make parties and invite mages if they want backup.
2) Melee/Tanks shouldn't sub the appropriate subs if they choose to go solo.
3) Mages should take time away to cure/raise people (other than pt members) and get less exp than melee/tanks just because you say so.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Didn't say that,

Please explain this:

Obviously, no White Mage involved in this thread knows anything about how to play their job. What a major failure.

Have fun going around doing jack-all, obvious difference between noobs and the better players right there.

You very clearly state that the WHMs involved are incompetent noobs, and 'major failures'.

While you're at it, explain to me how

missinterpreting words and statements to cause drama; like you do.

is meant as anything but a piece of provocative flamebait.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Exactly, you have stooped to insulting people to make your point. I for one am a whm and it was offensive. I did reply to it but edited my reply since its not worth my effort to have a discussion with someone that does something like that.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Please explain this:
You very clearly state that the WHMs involved are incompetent noobs, and 'major failures'.

Since you ask so nicely, it obviously refers to their White Mage gameplay. Don't know what kind of people they are in real life, do you?

I never said anywhere in any of my posts that I would not cure anyone. I said that I'm not going to be spending my time in the backlines tabbing around curing people and raising people. I'm going to try and get as much exp as you do, which is only fair. If I feel like curing people outside of my PARTY I will do so but there is no way in hell you can expect me to do it.

I completely agree with this, completely. It's also exactly what I said.. if you would have read all my posts and not only another person's quoting and replying in a manner as I've said something else.

I'm not going to write AGAIN what I wrote the last 10 times, but it came down exactly to what you say, with the added factor that it isn't weird to ask a White Mage for a Raise. Not once have I even said the word "expected", that's what you get for not reading everything I say, only the twisted drama causing reply's to my post.

And the White Mage's that really think their job is not about healing others, DO NOT understand the job.

Edit: (For clarification)
I can sub White Mage to Warrior and go around curing others, doesn't mean my job(Warrior) isn't about meleeing anymore.
And thus it also wouldn't be weird if people (Party leaders, who knows) would ask me to come damage some monster. Would I have to feel like "a victim" or "a sacrifice" cause they ask me to do damage? Even though I'm just curing others on War/whm? ...lol.

Doesn't mean I have to agree to do Damage. But it isn't weird they ask that.

[Mhurron]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

And the White Mage's that really think their job is not about healing others, DO NOT understand the job.

The job is not to heal others at the drop of a hat at the expense of their own EXP and/or fun when the WHM is not in a party with the person asking/demanding it.

And yes, this is the position you're arguing. A WHM presence in a Zone does not mean you are entitled to a raise or cure.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

The job is not to heal others at the drop of a hat at the expense of their own EXP and/or fun when the WHM is not in a party with the person asking/demanding it.

And yes, this is the position you're arguing. A WHM presence in a Zone does not mean you are entitled to a raise or cure.

I never said that. I never said "entitled". And I said a freaking 100 times in my earlier posts that fun and own exp comes first, added to the fact an OCCASIONAL raise and/or cure doesn't hurt.

You can try whatever you want, I won't let you twist my words.


PS: The post I wrote earlier, quoting TheGrandMom's "fixed" post, was deleted on accident. I was trying to delete another post.

[Mhurron]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

You might think that, but you are not saying that. That is the position of the people you are arguing against.

[Kittyneko]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

You might think that, but you are not saying that. That is the position of the people you are arguing against.

Where did I say that.

Would've been more progressive if you came up with quotes or a link right away.

[Feba]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Since you ask so nicely, it obviously refers to their White Mage gameplay

Do you honestly not see how that is insulting?

[Malacite]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

Kitty, are you purposely trying to miss the point or just trying to be an ass?

The problem is players ASSUMING that since there will be WHM, RDM , BLM or any other healers at a campaign battle that they do not have to do anything to make themselves self sufficient because these mages will drop everything to come and keep them alive. They assume, expect and demand mages to give up the most efficient way of getting EXP and give up having what fun they might want to to keep these precious little melee's alive while they get the most EXP they can.

And if DD/Tank jobs all did the same then what? We'd have mages bitching that we keep losing battles because no one is tanking and smashing face. Unfortunately this isn't a terribly likely outcome leaving the argument unfairly lopsided in favor of selfish mages. Oh yeah, and a lot of people in campaign really are stupid. On Seraph at least (particularly in Jugner - _ -) people can be pretty selfish/retarded. I remember one time I found a mob, it was the last one and everyone was wondering where it was. Soon as I came near the tank provoked it and started running to keep others away from it. These are also the same idiots who consistently ignored my shouts for a campaign party as a fucking bard. 'cause you know, increased performance = more EXP/AN = bad.

[Karinya]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

And if DD/Tank jobs all did the same then what? We'd have mages bitching that we keep losing battles because no one is tanking and smashing face.

Bullshit. I can tank and smash face just fine as a RDM. NPCs can tank and smash face too. Melees, especially non-self-sufficient ones, just aren't necessary in campaign. I realize this is a tough mental adjustment for the Eternal Gods Of Merit, but get used to it. You might need the mages (if you don't come prepared) but they don't need you.

I don't know what you would have to do to actually *lose* campaign battles, short of AFKing for the whole duration. Campaign is almost as easy as Besieged, and only the areas that hardly anyone ever goes to because of inconvenience (Garlaige, Eldieme) are in any real danger (aside from the beastman castles, which I'm pretty sure are *supposed* to be damn near unbeatable).

Unfortunately this isn't a terribly likely outcome leaving the argument unfairly lopsided in favor of selfish mages.

Killing the mob faster isn't a benefit, which means that most melees literally can't help if they try - there's *nothing* they can do that will improve the mage's exp. In that scenario "cooperation" is just another word for one-sided exploitation, so you really have no right to complain that people reject it.

[Mhurron]

Re: New Additions and Changes to Campaign (05/22/2008)

And if DD/Tank jobs all did the same

They do. They walk up to mobs and start smacking them. No one provokes, or does anything else with the intent of holding hate, hate just bounces around. That's not tanking.

Apparently it's a horrible thing if a mage does the same thing. PLD not provoking only merits a slight grumble.