Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

So when people keep going back to a video game that means it's good but when people keep going back to a television program it means they're idiots?

Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy in that statement?

Just because something is popular doesn't mean its in good taste. Sometimes people will watch a show or play a game just becaue its something to socialize about over the water cooler. Have you ever seen the people who buy a video game just to feel like part of a conversation about it. Happens all the time, its usually a recipie for financial destruction as a gamer, but people do it everyday.

Will people watch American Idol just to have something to talk about at work? If nothing better to them is on, it can sometimes prove to be the case. Its not unheard of.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

America crappy TV shows do not continue two nights a week for 7 Seasons on Prime Time television.

protip, go buy a TV.

And everything has flaws, nothing is perfect,

Yep. That doesn't change the fact that saying "other people like it, therefore it must be good" is ridiculous to the point of being non-sensical.

So when people keep going back to a video game that means it's good but when people keep going back to a television program it means they're idiots?

No. When people keep going back to a video game, that means they keep going back to a video game, when people keep going back to a tv show they keep going back to a TV show.

He never said shit about people returning to games being a representation of quality-- he said, very clearly, that WoW and FFXI both have problems and failings, and that people still come back.

[Armando]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Yep. That doesn't change the fact that saying "other people like it, therefore it must be good" is ridiculous to the point of being non-sensical.

To further support this, there are lots of really horrible webcomics that still enjoy a stupidly large amount of readers.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

To further support this, there are lots of really horrible webcomics that still enjoy a stupidly large amount of readers.

I've given up trying to find that "humor" thing with Perry Bible Fellowship.

[Ziero]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Just because something is popular doesn't mean its in good taste. Sometimes people will watch a show or play a game just becaue its something to socialize about over the water cooler. Have you ever seen the people who buy a video game just to feel like part of a conversation about it. Happens all the time, its usually a recipie for financial destruction as a gamer, but people do it everyday.

Will people watch American Idol just to have something to talk about at work? If nothing better to them is on, it can sometimes prove to be the case. Its not unheard of.

No one is going to continually watch a TV show they don't enjoy just to fit in "at the water cooler". Those people who talk about it, like it. If they don't like it, people won't watch it. Especially in the days of 800+ channels and on demand TV.

And especially American Idol, where people not only watch, but actively participate in it weekly.

protip, go buy a TV.

Yep. That doesn't change the fact that saying "other people like it, therefore it must be good" is ridiculous to the point of being non-sensical.

No. When people keep going back to a video game, that means they keep going back to a video game, when people keep going back to a tv show they keep going back to a TV show.

He never said shit about people returning to games being a representation of quality-- he said, very clearly, that WoW and FFXI both have problems and failings, and that people still come back.

Protip, a show won't last 5 years with 7 Seasons and be shown two nights a week at prime time if it didn't have some form of quality. Popularity alone isn't an indicator of quality, but popularity AND staying power certainly mean it can't be that bad.

And seeing as he's trying to prove that WoW is a quality game due to people who repeatedly return to it, the same should hold true for a television series.

Though, just to humor you, what do YOU think determines something's quality?

[Armando]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Again, Ziero, some shows suck but get a large amount of viewers anyways. Many people like to watch sucky things. It's just how it is.

[eticket109]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

I've given up trying to find that "humor" thing with Perry Bible Fellowship.

Some of his early stuff was amazing. He still does a great one once in a while but they're becoming few and far between.

[Murphie]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

PBF is a special breed of humor. It's not for everyone. But that doesn't mean that it isn't enjoyed by a number of people. And as eticket said, just because you enjoy one PBF comic doesn't mean that you enjoy them all.

I'm not going to touch the subjectivity debate going on in here. It's not worth it.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

It's always funny watching Feba stirring the pot on a gaming board for a game he never amounted to anything in over another game he never amounted to anything in. Do you have to have reached max level to have an opinion on a game? No, of course not. Do you have to have seen content past mid-level before you can comment on the majority of a game's facets? Hell yes! Oh but wait, when blatant lack of knowledge on the subject becomes apparent we'll just fall back on semantics and argue how 10 million paying customers' opinions obviously don't define the success of a product because we tolerate mediocrity in our every day lives.

Resume.

[Illuen]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Just a note: Just because something is not your cup of tea does not make it suck. I hate American Idol with a fiery passion, but I'd not say it sucks. People do not have to qualify their likes and dislikes by anyone else's standards.

Just because you may hate WoW, or American Idol, or (in many's cases) Final Fantasy XI is not reason enough for them to suck. I love quite a few shows that many find horribly stupid and the height of cheese, but does their dislike of the show mean it is a bad show?

Likes and dislikes are totally subjective, and any argument you base on them is going to end badly. World of Warcraft and American Idol are liked by quite enough people. When enough people stop liking them, then they will no longer be around. Until then, please STFU about how much it sucks, and how stupid everyone who likes these things are.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

No one is going to continually watch a TV show they don't enjoy just to fit in "at the water cooler".

Hi, welcome to humanity. Most of us will do stupid things to fit in.

Protip, a show won't last 5 years with 7 Seasons and be shown two nights a week at prime time if it didn't have some form of quality.

Yes, they will.

And seeing as he's trying to prove that WoW is a quality game due to people who repeatedly return to it,

No. It's showing that FFXI has plenty of problems, and WoW has plenty of problems, and people keep returning to it, so popularity and staying power is not a sign of quality.

what do YOU think determines something's quality?

Being good. There are some games I enjoy that I have no problem admitting aren't very good (for example, Gundam games); I have fun playing them, but that doesn't mean they're quality games. There are TV shows too (for example, Star Trek Voyager) that I can see tons of problems in, but still enjoy. I'm not saying WoW isn't enjoyable; I'm not even saying it's not good. I'm saying that using popularity and length of existence as an indicator of quality is asinine. We all know of at least a few favorite games that were really good, and nobody seemed to notice. We also all know of a few games that sold incredibly well that aren't anything special. There are things out there I know are good, but don't enjoy, and so on.

It's always funny watching Feba stirring the pot on a gaming board for a game he never amounted to anything in over another game he never amounted to anything in.

Go on, explain how this argument has anything to do with FFXI. Explain how you have to have a high level character to understand how people will buy into shit and keep watching it; or how comparing popularity to quality requires you to be Rank 10.

argue how 10 million paying customers' opinions obviously don't define the success of a product because we tolerate mediocrity in our every day lives.

Nobody has ever said that WoW isn't a successful product. Again, I didn't even say it's bad. Nobody has ever said that being by far the most popular game in your genre isn't a huge success. Just that popularity and being around for awhile is not an indicator of quality. An indicator of being enjoyable? Maybe. But not quality.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

So when people keep going back to a video game that means it's good but when people keep going back to a television program it means they're idiots?

Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy in that statement?

I saw my own contradiction; I put it there. Apparently, I was giving you too much credit in assuming you would be able to pick out the important parts.

What I said about American Idol can hold true for MMOs: A) there's no accounting for taste, or B) people don't care where it's coming from, so long as they get their next fix.

It also holds true in reverse: just because American Idol has shortcomings doesn't mean people aren't going to stay away from it.

But for real, you watch American Idol sometime. You try to tell me whether or not it has any redeeming value.

[Murphie]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Just a note: Just because something is not your cup of tea does not make it suck. I hate American Idol with a fiery passion, but I'd not say it sucks. People do not have to qualify their likes and dislikes by anyone else's standards.

Just because you may hate WoW, or American Idol, or (in many's cases) Final Fantasy XI is not reason enough for them to suck. I love quite a few shows that many find horribly stupid and the height of cheese, but does their dislike of the show mean it is a bad show?

Likes and dislikes are totally subjective, and any argument you base on them is going to end badly. World of Warcraft and American Idol are liked by quite enough people. When enough people stop liking them, then they will no longer be around. Until then, please STFU about how much it sucks, and how stupid everyone who likes these things are.

I hate the things you like, and you're stupid.

edit: BurningPanther - It's entertainment. Some people like it, some don't. Redeeming value is, again, entirely subjective.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

I hate the things you like, and you're stupid.

A lot of the ongoing "discussions" recently on these boards seem to built purely on that principle.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Redeeming value is, again, entirely subjective.

I'd disagree. I'd say that the redeeming value of a work to society isn't just opinion-- a work can be educational, enlightening, provactive; make people think or consider a new angle, and impact culture and even opinions.

However, pretty much all of us watch entertainment for *entertainment* value, so it's pretty irrelevant. As long as you can recognize when something you're watching is bad, it doesn't matter.