Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Who are these weirdos coming to find FFXI instead of waiting for S-E to go beg them to join?!

FF fans going "Well, I liked FF12, and I heard it had a lot in common with this", and WoW fans going "ok, ok, WoW sucks, I give in. How does this doohickey work."

[Pteryx]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

MMOs are a nomadic genre, people tend to roam from one to the next until they settle on one that suits thier style of play.

Some people never find it. They get in the beta sometimes just to say they were in the beta and then move on to the next MMO that won't satisfy them and then the next until they finally find something for them.

Sometimes they hype up the lastest MMO, saying it fixes everything that was wrong with the previous one, but given time, this attitude fosters disappointment when they find out the shiny new MMORPG they've been hyping for themselves falls short. So they move on to the next one.

This reminds me... I've been curious as to what the primary failings of other MMOs were or are, especially ones that killed a given game. I don't suppose you can suggest someplece to look aside from trying to make heads or tails of foreign forums?... -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

This reminds me... I've been curious as to what the primary failings of other MMOs were or are, especially ones that killed a given game. I don't suppose you can suggest someplece to look aside from trying to make heads or tails of foreign forums?... -- Pteryx

OK, here's the cycle as I was introduced to it.

My first MMO was Everquest Online Adventures. I rightly enjoyed it even though it was pretty much ass in terms of graphics. I was really only even playing it to hold me over until FFXI came out but liked the game on its own merits.

So there would be days I'd see someone inquire about EQOA and Beta Test FFXI Fanbot would roll out and just say, "Dude just wait for FFXI, I'm in the beta, its awesome." I would actually tell people about the game and try to not weigh it against FFXI.

Then when FFXI went public for NA in October 2003, everyone started from Square One. Beta Test Fanbot got to endgame level by March and became disenfrancised when they realized thier DRG, MNK or whatever wasn't really that wanted in endgame.

So they get in the WoW Beta and the cycle begins anew. If anyone had an FFXI question, Beta Test Fanbot would say, "Dude just wait for WoW, I'm in the beta, its awesome."

Beta Test Fanbot starts anew on WoW's full release. BTF gets to capped level and realizes everything he hyped about it leads to an inevitable bait-and-switch scheme. Whereas FFXI as PT reliaint at practically every level of the game past 10, WoW needs hordes of people do get anything done in endgame.

And so BTF goes out looking for another one

What BTF doesn't accept is that there is no such thing as a perfect MMO. No MMO will ever be perfect, so just pick the one that is closest to your tastes and stick with it.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

WoW needs hordes of people do get anything done in endgame.

You forgot to point out the fact that you can solo pretty much everything else. Which is the problem-- they don't split the game up into solo content and party content, they put the solo content out there, allow players to use it, and then screw them over and force them to party at the end. Compared to a game like, say, EVE online, where you can do pretty much anything solo (sans things that you'd only really want to do in large groups) or in large groups. There are mission 'dungeons' (you try building a dungeon...in..... SPAAAAAAAAACE without running into a few problems.) that you can do alone successfully, or bring friends along to help with. For example, I went along with corpmates who had better ships and skills than I did in a cargo hauler to pick up crap they would've otherwise had to leave behind. Want to go mining? You can do it yourself; or you can work as part of a larger group. Want to pirate and plunder (...in.... spaaaace) people? You can do it yourself, or you can work as part of a larger group. Pretty much anything that isn't specifically designed as being for groups (such as using POS to capture areas) can be done by yourself, or in a group. WoW's failing isn't that it provides solo content (compared to FFXI's alternative of soloers being evil and needing to be punished), but in it's lack of balance between the two.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

WoW needs hordes of people do get anything done in endgame.

I don't really think 25 people maximum qualify as a horde. How many did Dynamis run with back at its launch before everyone was geared up? How many did it initially take to down the CoP dragons? Maximum raid numbers WoW ever required were 40 and that was removed over a year ago in favour of 5, 10, and 25 man instances.

WoW's failing isn't that it provides solo content (compared to FFXI's alternative of soloers being evil and needing to be punished), but in it's lack of balance between the two.

10 million subscribers and growing would disagree with you.

[Pteryx]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

That wasn't really my question, omg... I mean, I haven't heard a lot of the killer problems like SWG's massive genre shift, or fundamental deep issues like WoW's solo/raid bait and switch, and I would like to learn about those. -- Pteryx

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

10 million subscribers and growing would disagree with you.

Popularity != Quality

Proof: Turn on your TV or Radio. Or, in your case, find some US TV streams over the intarwebs.

Unless you're also arguing that American Idol, Britney Spears, Survivor, et al. are the height of entertainment, your point is moot.
______________________________

I don't really think 25 people maximum qualify as a horde.

Compared to soloing? Yes. It very much is.

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Popularity != Quality

Nonsense. That statement doesn't hold water when it comes to a retail product. You might be suckered in to buying a duff item every now and again but you sure as Hell wouldn't pay a subscription to something you hated or viewed as lacking quality.

As to the 25 man figure, you're just splitting hairs there. You can gain gear of raid level quality in WoW by doing solo quests and gaining Badges which are turned in for equipment rewards. It is faster to gain gear by joining 5, 10, and 25 man groups but it's not required. There is also the PvP option for gaining gear which again can be achieved solo.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

You might be suckered in to buying a duff item every now and again

American Idol

Again, just because a lot of people do something over and over again doesn't mean it isn't retarded.

[Ziero]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

I wonder if SE is losing any customers from any recent games lately...
Such a prompt change to the system... yikes.

Doubtful, it's just as pointed out before, the game world have gotten bigger so making travel easier isn't as big of a deal anymore. Combine that with the fact that SE has been putting more and more emphasis on listening to the player base, since the release of ToAU, that these little things finally started to be worked on.

Completely agree with this.

But, something nags me: There's natural attrition; we lose fellow players all the time. Some of those losses are covered when friends take over accounts. (And when sold through RMT, I guess.) Some are recovered when players who quit earlier return to the game. However, the game must be attracting new blood somewhere to sustain no net customer loss over the last few years.

How, though?

FFXI has nearly no advertising, as far as I can tell. I've not seen in store promotional material anywhere, much less any media campaign. Heck, about the only ads I can recall were run by one local store in the local newspaper--tiny black and white pictures--one ad for each expansion pack around release.

Who are these weirdos coming to find FFXI instead of waiting for S-E to go beg them to join?!

A combination of word-of-mouth and the sheer fact it's availible on all major systems except the Wii. Even if you're not a computer gamer, if your Xbox or PS3 has a net connection, which many do, you can start FFXI with little risk and effort. Having a world wide playerbase combined with the varied availibility and packing all the expansions into one disc help move the game towards new players with limited to no advertising.

Popularity != Quality

Proof: Turn on your TV or Radio. Or, in your case, find some US TV streams over the intarwebs.

Unless you're also arguing that American Idol, Britney Spears, Survivor, et al. are the height of entertainment, your point is moot.

While popularity may not be an indicator of quality, endurance sure is. And WoW has been going for a few years now and is still far more dominant then any MMO ever made. While pop musicans come and go and reality shows run their course, the quality music and entertainment will be enjoyed for years to come, video games are no different. So while you may not enjoy WoW, it is still a "quality" game as it's not only survived, but thrived well into it's 3rd(?) year of existance.

And I'm saying this as someone who wants nothing to do with that ugly POS.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

WoW has been going for a few years now

American Idol

Once again, American Idol proves your point null. It came out two years before WoW.

Total pieces of shit have staying power too.

[Ziero]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

Actually it proves you don't like it, if it sucked it wouldn't have continued on.

It's quality entertainment for those who enjoy the show and will be something remembered for decades.

Do not confuse your personal taste with the overall quality of something.

And again, much like WoW, I hate American Idol.

[Feba]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

if it sucked it wouldn't have continued on.

I hope you do not actually live in America.

Do not confuse your personal taste with the overall quality of something.

I'm not. WoW has serious flaws (although FFXI's are probably worse, "10 million people can't be wrong" is a hilarious fallacy), and American Idol just plain sucks.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

American Idol's ratings don't mean American Idol is good, it just means that there's no accounting for taste.

Or it means people will watch anything so long as they get their TV(much like a crack fiend. Doesn't care who's sellin', so long as he gets his next fix).


WoW's fan base doesn't mean it's without problems; FFXI has any number of shortcomings, yet hundreds of thousands of us keep coming back for more every month. It's the same way with WoW.

[Ziero]

Re: Preview of Adjustments for June Version Update (Part 2) (05/20/2008)

I hope you do not actually live in America.

I'm not. WoW has serious flaws (although FFXI's are probably worse, "10 million people can't be wrong" is a hilarious fallacy), and American Idol just plain sucks.

I do actually live in America, and in America crappy TV shows do not continue two nights a week for 7 Seasons on Prime Time television.

And everything has flaws, nothing is perfect, but that doesn't mean some things can't be great.

Though I do love it when you start spouting your opinions as fact.

American Idol's ratings don't mean American Idol is good, it just means that there's no accounting for taste.

Or it means people will watch anything so long as they get their TV(much like a crack fiend. Doesn't care who's sellin', so long as he gets his next fix).

WoW's fan base doesn't mean it's without problems; FFXI has any number of shortcomings, yet hundreds of thousands of us keep coming back for more every month. It's the same way with WoW.

So when people keep going back to a video game that means it's good but when people keep going back to a television program it means they're idiots?

Seriously, do you not see the hypocrisy in that statement?