Development Team Q&A - May 2008

[Akashimo]

Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

I am already bored as hell trying to point out everything you all missed, please dear god learn about the events and do them before you bitch about them, bithcing about relics? Try to make one, bitching about HNMS? camp them, etc etc etc. Then you will atleast know what your talking about.

Stop being a bored prick and people might stop

[Sevv]

Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

Stop being a bored prick and people might stop

Because It is my fault you don't do all the events, right. It fine for you all to bitch but if someone disagrees with you it is being a prick. Ok sure.

[Akashimo]

Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

<_< /sarcasm do you need it?

[Temagori]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Woooo~ sahhhh~

[Aksannyi]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Sevv I know how attestations and animated weapons work, I've done attestation runs before. The fact that you need an entire alliance (or more) to do them still doesn't please me. The whole system is, "Here guys, all of you do the work for me so I can get currency and while we're at it, you guys help me fight this stuff and then, after I turn in the currency you helped me get, I'm gonna get this awesome weapon and you guys get to say you helped."

What happened to the relic-holder himself proving his worth? I really like the idea of a G5-like fight. Some people can't kill RDM Maat, well guess what, they sure as hell don't deserve to level RDM. Same thing here, except unlike Maat, you can't just bring another job up to do it in order to bypass the more difficult G5.

I'm not going to go deep into it all over again here. I dislike the fact that the current relic system is buyable the way it is. While I eventually want to work on one, I just kind of wished it was more epic than just, "Here, Mr. Goblin, take this currency and a few items I could probably get off the AH and gimme my stage 2." Attestations and Fragments are something, at least.My opinion of them is that at least SE didn't make it totally about currency. But IMO it's not enough.

I know relics are still rare and that's fine. I'm not saying that I don't want them to be rare. I'm saying maybe there's some way to change it so that it's not currency based somehow, that it's based on ... perhaps something you do in Dynamis, which you then "redeem" for points at the same Goblin you'd give currency. It would require a complete overhaul of the system and I'm not holding my breath, but that's how I'd prefer it, all the same. And maybe those who didn't want to go for a relic could redeem dynamis points for something else, not AF though, the drop system works though it's a hell of a wait for most of the good shit. Some other kind of R/E rewards for doing Dynamis. I don't know. It's probably just as broken my way, but I can think of something better than RMTing currency.

And Sevv, a lot more people buy gil than you think, even the ones who claim to hate RMT with all their being. I guarantee there are at least a handful of people who you'd never suspect to buy gil, buying gil in your ls. It's gotten pretty ugly but it's the truth.

[Sevv]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Ok now I am going to just be blunt in this thread.

Sevv I know how attestations and animated weapons work. The fact that you need an entire alliance (or more) to do them still doesn't please me.

Sadly this isnt Aksannyi online, not everything in the game is going to please everyone. You can never please everyone at the same time someone will always be unhappy. The people who made the game that we all play for figured that was a good enough test, so that is what really matters.

What happened to the relic-holder himself proving his worth? I really like the idea of a G5-like fight. Some people can't kill RDM Maat, well guess what, they sure as hell don't deserve to level RDM. Same thing here, except unlike Maat, you can't just bring another job up to do it in order to bypass the more difficult G5.

Seriously when has G5's been hard? Red Mage hard not really, if you can read and put forth any effort you can beat these. And since when have you had to deserve to level red mage? Red Mage high horse (->).

I'm not going to go deep into it all over again here. I dislike the fact that the current relic system is buyable the way it is. While I eventually want to work on one, I just kind of wished it was more epic than just, "Here, Mr. Goblin, take this currency and a few items I could probably get off the AH and gimme my stage 2." Attestations and Fragments are good, I give you that, I certainly think that at least SE didn't make it totally about currency. But IMO it's not enough.

EVERYTHING IS BUYABLE, I think my old ls we sold everything but a Defending Ring. The system deters the majority of the community which makes the rare items rare.

I know relics are still rare and that's fine. I'm not saying that I don't want them to be rare. I'm saying maybe there's some way to change it so that it's not currency based somehow, that it's based on ... perhaps something you do in Dynamis, which you then "redeem" for points at the same Goblin you'd give currency. It would require a complete overhaul of the system and I'm not holding my breath, but that's how I'd prefer it, all the same. And maybe those who didn't want to go for a relic could redeem dynamis points for something else, not AF though, the drop system works though it's a hell of a wait for most of the good shit. Some other kind of R/E rewards for doing Dynamis. I don't know. It's probably just as broken my way, but I can think of something better than RMTing currency.

Hi this is where your relic dreams can come true and you don't have to try to change a system that already works fine! FINAL FANTASY XI Official Web Site

And Sevv, a lot more people buy gil than you think, even the ones who claim to hate RMT with all their being. I guarantee there are at least a handful of people who you'd never suspect to buy gil, buying gil in your ls. It's gotten pretty ugly but it's the truth.

I am well aware that there is a shit load of gil buyers. The fact is alot of people also get said they buy gil with no proof, like I said there have been 2 relics proven to done thru rmt via taj. Actaully we have a shit load of UAE players who buy gil in my linkshell.

[Akashimo]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Sadly this isnt Aksannyi online, not everything in the game is going to please everyone. You can never please everyone at the same time someone will always be unhappy. The people who made the game that we all play for figured that was a good enough test, so that is what really matters.

Damn I agree with Sevv and Aksannyi on that one....

Seriously when has G5's been hard? Red Mage hard not really, if you can read and put forth any effort you can beat these. And since when have you had to deserve to level red mage? Red Mage high horse (->).

Only time its hard, first time. Cause reading and experiencing are two totally different things. Poor Red Mages on their first G5 Fight with no merits and going to have higher chance of being resisted ; ; But yeah, not really hard, *points to whm dd maat vid*

Hi this is where your relic dreams can come true

The Cake is a lie!

[Aksannyi]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Seriously when has G5's been hard? Red Mage hard not really, if you can read and put forth any effort you can beat these. And since when have you had to deserve to level red mage? Red Mage high horse (->).

I just have to say that because most of the RDMs (at least on Hades) are horrible, they should have to beat Maat. I've always thought you should have to beat him on every job you level anyway though. >.>; And a "G5-like" fight ... meant something one-on-one. Not the difficulty of G5, it's a joke in most cases. Something that's damn hard.

I'm tired of arguing. I'm unhappy with how relics are now but I'm not going to change your mind. Let's talk about something else. Cookies, anyone?

EDIT: Should also note that I know they can't please everyone all the time. But how fair is it that 36 people do a fight so one person gets an epic weapon? Especially if that one person happens to be a huge douche, happened to me before but you do what your leaders tell you, kna'mean?

Yes I left that shell but at the time I had nowhere better to go and I didn't know just how much we were being used.

[Akashimo]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Cookies, anyone?

/

^^

[Aksannyi]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

[Sevv]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Damn I agree with Sevv and Aksannyi on that one....

Only time its hard, first time. Cause reading and experiencing are two totally different things. Poor Red Mages on their first G5 Fight with no merits and going to have higher chance of being resisted ; ; But yeah, not really hard, *points to whm dd maat vid*
The Cake is a lie!

I'm 4/4 on it with my Red Mage sitting at 51. I took the time to read up play with a few tough mobs solo and beat it for my four friends lol.

I just have to say that because most of the RDMs (at least on Hades) are horrible, they should have to beat Maat. I've always thought you should have to beat him on every job you level anyway though. >.>; And a "G5-like" fight ... meant something one-on-one. Not the difficulty of G5, it's a joke in most cases. Something that's damn hard.

I'm tired of arguing. I'm unhappy with how relics are now but I'm not going to change your mind. Let's talk about something else. Cookies, anyone?

Most red mages are horrible, as well as bards. The reason is they are quick outs to 75 period, it just how it works sadly.

EDIT: Should also note that I know they can't please everyone all the time. But how fair is it that 36 people do a fight so one person gets an epic weapon? Especially if that one person happens to be a huge douche, happened to me before but you do what your leaders tell you, kna'mean?

Yes I left that shell but at the time I had nowhere better to go and I didn't know just how much we were being used.

The whole theme of this game is working together. So it can be a reason that they wanted things to be done as multiple people. You can beat those weapons sub 18. You have to join a shell that you can trust your leaders, if dynamis currency is going to a relic who do you think is getting the first few relics. I know my ls leaders will take the first few drops for themselves, I knew that going in, like alot of the linkshells around here, I went in knowing it so its meh.
______________________________
Ya i'm really getting blunt now getting more red cards already !!! 13 more points till BRP

[Ziero]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Yet more proof you just go right for that Quote button and don't read shit.

Did you even stop to think I meant they could stagger the missions over time intentionally, not to mention put a ENM-like waiting period on re-attemts and even implment chance factors that would affect these quests? There is so much more they could do than just make these simple mission. Get an imagination.

And yet more proof that you ignore the fact that there is something like that in place and that people get through them without trouble.

It's called Captain's Rank.

kitten isn't completely off the mark. It doesn't strike you as remotely--unbalanced---that, instead of grinding for currency to buy a relic, you can just... BUY the currency? Someone tell me if I crazy, but that seems broken in itself.

A series of awesome and awesomely hard quests could easily replace coin grinding for relic accrual. In my head, it plays out like Genkai on crack.

Earn your relic instead of buy it... so crazy, it just might work!

I think the best idea I've heard for this was to make some sort of BCNM/KSNM 99 fight that can drop a r/e currency equivalent. Being on seals it would prevent massive repeats of the fight, but it would still be a supplimental way to earn currency. However, this could only work, imo, if it went in tandum to being able to buy/trade currency. Those coins aren't just for relics, they help LSs fund Dynamis runs, so being able to sell them is a bonus to doing Dynamis for people not worried about relics.

Yes, there are people incredibly successful with crafting who can obtain relic by those means, however, its virtually impossible to raise a profitable craft these days if you didn't hit max level very early in the game's life or weren't incredibly lucky with BCNMs.

The lvl 100 Alchemist in my LS who just finished raising all his other crafts to 60 proves you wrong. Oh, and he also has a lvl 100 cooking mule with 60 alc.

Also, it really shouldn't take much more than 4 months, 6 at the absolute most (taking into account waiting periods and failures) because no matter how rewarding, blowing an entire year on one item is just plain stupid. It doesn't prove anything other than you not having anything better to spend your time on.

HA, no. Then you would completely break the system of these things being intentionally rare. When you work towards a relic you don't spend 100% of your time on it. So if you blow an "entire year" doing nothing but working on relics, then you have no idea what you're doing. But seeing as there are plenty of people who do play this game for years, then working on a relic while they play normally, where the only things they actually have to do is attend Dynamis frequently and shop for coins, is no different from just playing the game.

Har har. Really, though, you can't think of a single example; because SE hasn't attempted such a thing before.

I gave you the perfect example of a "chain of quests or missions that SE only wants a very very small portion of the playerbase to complete". SE stated many times that they WANT THESE WEAPONS TO BE RARE. Just because you refuse to acknowledge the truth doesn't mean it's not there.

What happened to the relic-holder himself proving his worth? I really like the idea of a G5-like fight. Some people can't kill RDM Maat, well guess what, they sure as hell don't deserve to level RDM. Same thing here, except unlike Maat, you can't just bring another job up to do it in order to bypass the more difficult G5.

My friend went like 0/20 on Rdm maat. Then she had a friend log into her account and beat him for her.

There are ways around every system.

And why is everyone bitcing about the old Relics when SE is adding new ones to specifically address the complaints you all have? If you don't like how hard it is to get RoZ Relics, then ignore them and work towards ToAU relics. See, in the end it's a win win scenario.

[Aksannyi]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Yes because people who don't have money to get one of the original relics just want SE's "consolation prize."

Stating that there are now new relics is only your way of saying that you can't possibly accept that the current relic system is flawed as it is. No one's going to want the shitty RDM Nyzul relic over Excalibur for example, and it would be stupid to think otherwise, unless it really is bitchingly awesome, in which case then it fails because SE has said they want the Dynamis relics > Nyzul relics.

Quite sure they'll be easier to obtain. Don't even sit there and tell me to run off and get a Nyzul relic like it even compares. "Woo hoo look at me I have the Nyzul Relic." Guess what, that doesn't even remotely equal the Dynamis Relics so stop pulling that bullshit card.

I've already stated that they're fine being rare. When did I ever state that I wanted more people to have them? I didn't. I'm saying I still want them to be hard to get but that I don't think people should have to fucking buy everything. Jesus tapdancing christ I didn't think it was so fucking hard for you to understand. Buying shit, IMO, takes the achievement out of it. Sure I could buy a fucking D Ring from an HNM shell but it sure wouldn't feel like I earned that shit myself after showing up to a camp and watching other people fucking kill it for me. Buying shit =/= acheivement in my opinion.

I really didn't think I had to dumb it down this much.

[Jonastb]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

Let me point out something else. Rare =/= Unique. Rare items are items that will not be used by the common person.

In real life, a yacht is rare. The common person will not own a yacht.
In FFXI a TON of items are Rare. There are Rare items that everyone has.
The reason is that Adventurers, such as us, are also Rare. We are NOT THE COMMON PEOPLE. There is no INTELLIGENT reason that everyone shouldn't be able to get a relic weapon. And because SE said so is NOT an intelligent reason.

Quest it, put together every element of the game to get it.

Start with getting the weapon in Dynamis
Require 1k WS points
Travel around to different areas to Farm (not buy) different items that are related to that weapon. (ie coeurl whisker for bow)
Fight Multiple NPCs (yes, some that are in Dynamis too)
Have wait times, SE loves JP midnight anyway
Have different requirements that are weapon related that only have to be done for that weapon.

There are a lot of things that you can do that will take both time and experience to get a weapon that doesn't require gil.

[Feba]

Re: Development Team Q&amp;A - May 2008

I gave you the perfect example of a "chain of quests or missions that SE only wants a very very small portion of the playerbase to complete".

Wrong. You gave me an example of a very large gil/timesink. At best, you're using circular logic.

SE stated many times that they WANT THESE WEAPONS TO BE RARE.

And SE has also never attempted to make a mission/quest that also was intended to be rare.