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Development Team Q&A - May 2008

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  • #16
    Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

    Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
    Yes, because Bercus would have asked about the Mycophile Cuffs NM
    With the inanity of his other questions, I wouldn't be one bit surprised.

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    • #17
      Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

      In case you were wondering, he got his questions from this lovely list of suggestions

      Cause its big
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      Y'okay!

      PSN: goboaj (be my friend damnit)

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      • #18
        Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

        Oh look there's more
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        Y'okay!

        PSN: goboaj (be my friend damnit)

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        • #19
          Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

          Why did they only ask about drops in Northlands?

          What about making Dynamis instanced, and maybe changing the way the current relic weapons are obtained so it's more of an epic and long quest as opposed to a soul crushing repetitive grind for coins?
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          "BLAH BLAH BLAH TIDAL WAVE!!!"

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          • #20
            Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

            Originally posted by Malacite View Post
            Why did they only ask about drops in Northlands?

            What about making Dynamis instanced, and maybe changing the way the current relic weapons are obtained so it's more of an epic and long quest as opposed to a soul crushing repetitive grind for coins?
            That reminds me of a funny story:

            One day, my shell was at Xarcabard, and we all decided we didn't wanna take on Dynamis lord that day(crazy, innit?), so we just took to a killing spree on every thing in the zone up to the wall of Kindred/Ahriman.

            At the end of the run, we found, for all the mobs we killed and all the Relic armor that dropped, there was no fundamental difference between Xarcabard's drop rates and any of the cities. We thought maybe we just had a really good day, until we did it a couple more times, with similar results.

            Moral of the Story: Northlands drop rates are not different from cities, if you take the time to kill more than just the path to the NMs.

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            • #21
              Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

              Originally posted by Malacite View Post
              Why did they only ask about drops in Northlands?

              What about making Dynamis instanced, and maybe changing the way the current relic weapons are obtained so it's more of an epic and long quest as opposed to a soul crushing repetitive grind for coins?
              People already asked about making Dynamis instanced, I think, so useless to revisit that again. (Probably already asked several times.) As for relics, S-E has already stated its is HAPPY with the rate players are obtaining those weapons, so asking the devs to change the way to obtain it is kinda pointless since the current system is pretty much doing what they want.

              I have some guesses on why S-E thinks Dynamis should not be instanced, and happen to agree that those would be difficult issues to fix--and probably not worth the dev time/yen.

              Basically it boils down to this: If a very large group activity like Dynamis as it was designed were to become instanced, it may screw over more people than help. The reason being is almost all the groups would end up entering Dynamis at prime times for each time zone, since now they all can, and people with odd hours are left to fend for themselves. By not instancing, it forces the Dynamis LS's to spread out into later and earlier hours, so on the whole more people have a chance to participate.

              That, and the company don't want to see currency farming by smaller groups--as stated, the devs are very happy with the rate of relic weapons, and don't want to see those appear in-game at a faster rate.

              Then again, I don't really understand S-E's resistance to a scheduling and reservation system. Non-refundable reservations would really make LS's whip their people to show up on time, one would think.
              Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
              yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
              Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
              leaving no trace in the water.

              - Mugaku

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              • #22
                Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post
                As for relics, S-E has already stated its is HAPPY with the rate players are obtaining those weapons,
                Nobody has asked to make relics easier or change how many players can get them. People are asking to make relic weapons epic quests, instead of just a money collecting grind. The difference is pretty clear.

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                • #23
                  Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                  -Many jobs aren't very useful in endgame events compared to others.
                  +Adjust jobs so every job has something useful for endgame events, preferably something unique similar to what was done with Thf (Feint), Drg (Angon) & War (Tomahawk).
                  The first part was pretty vague, but never asked either. Personally, I want to know what these people considered not useful.

                  I do know that PUP has limitations with healer frame since if you let the Automation go for to long on its own, it will start doing things that aren't curing people. I also know BLU is limited in its ability to cure across alliance, which is a problem DNC shares.

                  DNC is very limited when it comes to HNMs and mobs they wouldn't be allowed to touch, not to mention they're kinda screwed crossing over into some battlefields as well.

                  Pet jobs I don't really understand the resistance endgame LSes have about them. I mean, yeah, pet melee is bad in some cases especially where crowd control (such as RNG shadowbinding Seiryu) might be a concern. But then, if SE would let pets be a bit sturdier, SMN and BST in particular would be a larger asset in crowd control elsewhere, such as Dynamis or Limbus.

                  Most non-HNM/god endgame content any job works out well enough. There's nothing really outstanding about mobs in Dyna/Limbus/Salvage/Einherjar that renders a particular job useless from what I've experienced.

                  The last endgame LS I trialed with - and they didn't do HNMs at all - had an attitude of resistance to certain jobs, pet jobs especially, even SMN. I have to admit, I didn't really get it. I mean, OK if you don't want a PUP at Proto-Omega. Fine. But other content I'm just not seeing the problem.

                  I think a lot of it is just superstition and cut-and-paste strategy that hurts these jobs more than these jobs not being effective.

                  Originally posted by IfritnoItazura
                  The reason being is almost all the groups would end up entering Dynamis at prime times for each time zone, since now they all can, and people with odd hours are left to fend for themselves. By not instancing, it forces the Dynamis LS's to spread out into later and earlier hours, so on the whole more people have a chance to participate.
                  This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're saying being able to join a linkshell compatible with your primetime hours and timezone is a bad thing and being forced to cope with shells that enter too early or late is a good thing.

                  Try it with an EU/NA LS when you're on PST time and the EUs want to do Dynamis on a timetable comfortable for them. It doesn't end pretty.

                  Instancing and being able to form LSes around time zones would be a VASTLY superior option to the one we have now with Dynamis.
                  Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 05-14-2008, 06:11 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                    Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
                    Try it with an EU/NA LS when you're on PST time and the EUs want to do Dynamis on a timetable comfortable for them. It doesn't end pretty.
                    QFT
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                    • #25
                      Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                      Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
                      This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You're saying being able to join a linkshell compatible with your primetime hours and timezone is a bad thing and being forced to cope with shells that enter too early or late is a good thing.
                      Hmm. How do I explain this?

                      Let's say 60% of NA players can make 8 p.m. EDT entry time. With instancing, almost all NA shells will likely do that, since East Coasters probably don't want to stay up too late if they can help it, and the middle America won't mind the time--the schedule would be terrific for most of the English speaking players.

                      This leaves the people on West Coast with a problem; many of them would be stuck in traffic--8 p.m. EDT is 5 p.m. PDT. This means West Coast people will have to hope they can find enough of their time zone people with the right job and experiences to form Dynamis LS, since 2/3 of the U.S. players insterested in Dynamis will be in the 8 p.m. EDT Dynamis LS's. That is, form LS's from those West Coast people who haven't found way to join East Coaster's schedules.

                      Without instancing, LS's are force to spread out, and you'd get more LS's with later entry times. That would accommodate West Coast people, as well as East Coast people who get home late.

                      Lack of instancing is an incentive for more varied entry time--well, it forces it, really. Instancing may actually help create a situation where there are fewer LS's at "off" hours, preventing more players from participating.

                      * * *

                      At least, I think that's the way the devs would look at the situation.

                      Keep in mind they designed the original Dynamis content for large groups, and probably don't want to see small groups. Given that only so many people are interested in Dynamis, they probably believe lack of instancing is an incentive to make sure there are large groups at staggered time slots.


                      * * *

                      Originally posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten View Post
                      Instancing and being able to form LSes around time zones would be a VASTLY superior option to the one we have now with Dynamis.
                      Well, I think WoW has free scheduling of instanced, large battlefields, right? How do the guilds there typically deal with East Coast vs. West Coast time conflicts? Do larger percentage of people get left out because of inability to find schedule that fits than FFXI's Dyanmis scene? Or smaller percentage?

                      Keep in mind I'm just speculating what S-E's developers may fear; it'd be nice to have concrete examples from similar situations to see if such concerns are justified.
                      Last edited by ItazuraNhomango; 05-14-2008, 10:44 PM. Reason: Left out a sentence.
                      Bamboo shadows sweep the stars,
                      yet not a mote of dust is stirred;
                      Moonlight pierces the depths of the pond,
                      leaving no trace in the water.

                      - Mugaku

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                      • #26
                        Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                        Originally posted by IfritnoItazura View Post

                        Well, I think WoW has free scheduling of instanced, large battlefields, right? How do the guilds there typically deal with East Coast vs. West Coast time conflicts? Do larger percentage of people get left out because of inability to find schedule that fits than FFXI's Dyanmis scene? Or smaller percentage?

                        You join a guild that raids at a time you can attend. Since it's instanced and end game raids only require 10-25 people most guilds will set up two to three runs a night depending on how many members they have, and they are generally spaced out over the night. Usually something like group 1 at 6pm, group 2 at 9pm, group 3 at midnight, or whatever. There are a lot of guilds that will also run very late runs at 2-3am.

                        The only reason you'd get left out is if you're too lazy to find a guild that raids at hours you can make. It's actually difficult to -not- find a guild that supports your hours, since it's all instanced it's much easier to be flexible with times.


                        500 hours in MS paint

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                        • #27
                          Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                          Keep in mind I'm just speculating what S-E's developers may fear; it'd be nice to have concrete examples from similar situations to see if such concerns are justified.
                          If those are the fears, they're totally unfounded. Just look at the way JP players play - do they make any real effort to do events with NA shells?

                          Of course not, they pretty much all live in one time zone, they join a LS or PTs that are more in-line with thier times and since they generally do live in on time zone to my knowledge, they usually seek out an LS compatible with thier times. I'm sure that's not very hard.

                          Now try that with english-speaking cultures.

                          Our time zones are not just wide in the US, but there's Europe and even Austrailia to consider. Australia falls a lot more closely to Japan's timeframe, too. Since a lot of JP players lump us english-speaking types into the same group of morons, its kinda hard for AU and EU players to do anything with them.

                          A lot of these players I knew had to take on more supportive roles such as RDM, WHM, BRD, SCH or COR to even see an invite from JP players seeking at or close to thier prime. That or they took up soloable jobs and got to 75 that way. If you're a english-speaking melee on JP prime, you're basically fucked.

                          But if you go to more populated serves such as Odin or Bahamut, it gets even more shrewd than it was on the smaller server, JPs will get picky about whether or not their BRD speaks english and they'll do it because there's a lot more JP players on the server to choose from. On Titan, JPs will pick up an NA BRD in a heartbeat and JP melees will take what they can get. Here on Odin, even the JP meleescan sometimes be really snobby.

                          So let's weigh these time and cultural factors and try to apply them to Dynamis, Limbus and Einherjar non-instanced, three-day waiting period structure...

                          Can I start banging my head on a wall now?

                          At least with Limbus it can be a bit more soloable or even a duo/trio affair, that is, if you're just out for coins and certain AF upgrades. That's do-able and easier to organize, but doesn't get you Omega or Ultima fights, usually. And you could farm AF with smaller Dynamis groups if you wanted, but the cost of entry is somewhat prohibitive. If you want to do the bigger parts of this content, you must submit yourself to a big LS capable of doing it.

                          And that big LS might but usually isn't in your time zone.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                            So instead of someone having to work for months and months and months to obtain one of these intentionally super rare items, people should be able to burn through a few "quests" to gain them en-mass to the point they become standard gear?

                            Unless every step of the way was harder then the hardest BCNM fights, and most of these entirely soloable with no chance to get help, with intentionally long wait periods before you can continue the quest chain...all of which would result in even more bitching about how hard it was to do these things...then making Relic weapons "questable" would be a bad idea.

                            They're supposed to be neigh-unattainable, that's what makes them so special. Right now they ARE epic quests simply because of all the work someone has to put in to get them. These weapons are not for everyone.
                            "I have a forebrain, my ability to abstract thoughts allow for all kinds of things" - Red Mage 8-Bit theater

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                            • #29
                              Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                              Originally posted by Ziero View Post
                              They're supposed to be neigh-unattainable, that's what makes them so special. Right now they ARE epic quests simply because of all the work someone has to put in to get them. These weapons are not for everyone.
                              Dude, seriously, take a reading comprehension course.

                              NO ONE has said they should be easy to obtain.
                              NO ONE has said they should not be rare.
                              NO ONE has said they should not be work.

                              But really, what "work" is there now aside from buying gil or senselessly grinding away at Dynamis? There is no skill involved in grinding, there is nothing epic about buying gil to buy currency - these are the only two ways relics are really completed. RMT it or a senseless grind where leaders get served and LS members may not.

                              If you think the system that presently exists is "epic" you have no concept of "epic."
                              Last edited by Omgwtfbbqkitten; 05-15-2008, 08:53 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Development Team Q&A - May 2008

                                Originally posted by Feba View Post
                                is it just me, or did SE evade every single goddamn question?
                                Old habits die hard?
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