The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

[Ziero]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

It should be just as epic as completing CoPs - CoPs are missions that require immense orgainization, good resourses and teamwork to complete. ToA and RoZ you can still do on pickups at practically no cost. But CoPs are a huge accomplishment for any player and CoP completion is widely considered a major plus for those applying to endgame linkshells these days.

As "epic" as CoP is, how many people have CoP rings?

I'd like to see long, job-specific mission-type quests pertaining to the completion of these weapons. These should actually be extentions of AF storylines. I don't care if it takes a long time to obtain them or if the quests are insanely hard, but simply buying them seems silly to me.

I'd love that too, but that's because I love missions, especially the ones you can solo or do with small groups.

I don't want to see Dyna weapons "cheapened". I would like to see about half as much gil invested, and a shit-ton more rare/ex invested. A start would be something like say... a 100% drop from a KS99 fight that the goblins find equivalent to some large amount of Dynamis currency. Since the equivalent is rare/ex, you'd avoid monetary issues. In the meantime, it takes a long time to amass 99 KSs, but at least you're not just crafting and buying currency 24/7. Meh, just an idea.

While not a bad idea, it's still grinding. I don't see how changing it from one grind to another really helps any. But if it would give the illusion of being a lesser grind then I guess it's better.

These weapons need more than damage.

All relic weapons have the best stats for their class in game, a special WS with bonus effect, and an ability to do triple their dmg on any hit including WS. As weapons, what should they do besides Dmg?

If this was the case, then there would only be one of each, and you could only attain one. Why the fuck are you defending a clearly broken system, or do you yourself have absolutely nothing in your life but this game?

Ziero you have just made my ignore list, congrats! And yes I'd rather fight AV because eventually, we'll discover how to beat him, and fighting him is far more epic than doing a million dynamis runs.

You insult me but I'm going on your ignore list because I disagree with you? There's some logic. But then again you are saying you'd rather fight an unwinable battle and hope that you can lot on item that has a tiny chance of even dropping in the first place.

EDIT: I Forgot to mention that by making these the so-called "Best Weapons" in the game, then you just end up shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to creating new ones. SE already has in some respects, I mean look at the Destroyers for Christ sake! They parse very closely and yet Destroyers are much easier to obtain. Don't forget about Joyeuse either. While I'm confident Excalibur should come out on top, it'll be an even closer match up than Destroyers vs Spharai.

So wait, you don't even think these weapons are that good? So why the hell are you making such a big fuss over them? If you don't think they're worth it then don't worry about them.

Oh and btw, SE has added *tons* of new, awesome gear without outdating their old stuff. Joytoy and Ridill are still awesome weapons, Adaman Haub is still a great DD piece and Scorp Harness is still a staple for most jobs who can use it. Infact they already said that the Nyzul ones won't be as strong as the Dyna ones, and that the Dyna ones might even get an even bigger boost to keep them the best.

Actually I wouldn't be terribly surprised if Relic Upgrades from Nyzul actually entailed more Nyzul grinding. To me, Nyzul is an extention of the CoP mentality. While Nyzul may not be the gauntlet CoPs are, it requires the same kind of commitment, preparation and teamwork. It suceeds or fails for the same reason a CoP mission can.

But then, I LOVE doing Nyzul Isle for that reason, along with objectives and conditions being randomized to keep it interesting. Some may groan about the Pathos or Objectives like they do about the Judges' Laws in FFTA, but I like randomized objectives and conditions better than just repeating the same zone with the same strategy over and over and over again.

Hopefully, the upgrades to these weapons will be found within Nyzul itself, perhaps dropping from the HNMs or your garden variety NM on the various floors. Considering the sacrifice is not getting to do Assaults or Salvage while you do Nyzul, placing the upgrades in Nyzul itself would be totally fair and reasonable. Putting the in other ToA instanced endgame content would create conflicts.

Honestly, that's what I see happening too, as it should. Infact don't the base parts for the Nyzul relics only drop from the top floor's HNM bosses? And much like the Salvage and other ToAU gear, I expect that crafting mats will also be needed, en mass, for these new Relics. But then again people like to ignore the fact that you have to buy things to make the Salvage armor also. Because they're not *as* expensive, it's not as big a deal.

Edit: For all the bitching and complaining that's been going on in this thread about the old relics, I still haven't seen anyone say why these items should be easier to obtain other then "I want them". Oh, and "they're not that good" but I'm not counting that excuse.

[Akashimo]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

For all the bitching and complaining that's been going on in this thread about the old relics, I still haven't seen anyone say why these items should be easier to obtain other then "I want them". Oh, and "they're not that good" but I'm not counting that excuse.

What about, people would be more likely to get adjurbations, kirin osode set, and relic armor with at least 2 relic +1 in the time it take to get one of these weapons or less. And if its Nyzle Isle to gain the new relic, getting them would be less of a chore than dynamis ones.
Overall its how we want something thats the original to be gained by a less drama means governed by the current system when the new ones could be more simple like a ZM static.

[Aksannyi]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

I'm with BBQ, I love doing Nyzul, it's perhaps the highlight of my week. I hope we have to do all of the stuff for the Nyzul relics within Nyzul.

But for the love of god, can we get maps? LOL

[Yellow Mage]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

But for the love of god, can we get maps? LOL

Randomly Generated Dungeon {You can have this.}

[Aksannyi]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

No I just get frustrated because they'll have me head back to the porter (since I'm the static WHM and the RDM can usually handle healing on the last few mobs) and 9/10 I have no idea where the fuck it is.

[Lmnop]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Ziero, I understand your point. But I think you need to come away with concepts when people throw out ideas instead of assuming they're implying a perfect copy/paste. What I mean is..

Ok, CoP-like system. Like obtaining a CoP ring. But it doesn't have to be just another CoP. It would still require a lot of gil, a lot of friends, a lot of skill. It should still take an individual 6 months+ to get through the upgrades. This means at least some portion must be made a grind, but it doesn't have to be complete grind.

Dynamis wouldn't be dynamis if it didn't take place in... Dynamis. That's why I suggest minor tweaks to the current relic quests. I'd just like to see more things capable of being accomplished via rare/ex means. My previous idea would certainly be "grinding" but 50 dynamis + 10 KS99s beats the shit out of 100 dynamis. Plus, you'd have all the exp accrued from earning those seals.

Still, not that my idea is perfect. But you can't say "that doesn't work because there's still a grind to it." We can't eliminate grind. That's what First Person Shooters are for. We can, however, lessen it as much as possible. Diversify once every 4 years.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

All I saw was a series of quotes from me that Zeiro responded to, when you start splitting down posts that far, the conversation has ended and someone is trying so very hard to "win at the internet."

When FFXI was put out on the market and Zilart content was still new, FFXI was following the designs of MMOs that had preceded it. Instancing was not a common trend and FFXI never got on board with it until ToA. I can't totally blame SE for not wanting to overhaul Dynamis to be instanced and they've done a fair job of expanding endgame content to the point where the design of Dynamis entry isn't as much of a pain in the ass as it used to be.

Still, It wouldn't hurt for RoZ endgame content to get with the times, just a little. Sky saw a fixed Ulli and Despot, but that's about it. CoP's Limbus got a price cut on entry, but then, I'm OK with that since Limbus is usually more of a low-manned venture than Dynamis is. If we're gonna play peon to someone's relic upgrades, they should pay out the ass for that hourglass - that is one aspect of the system I won't argue.

Relic upgrades should be a labor of sorts, they should have some expense, they should take a while to get, but they should also entail a greater amount of variety than they presently do and perhaps also entail content that does not require massive endgame shells to do twice a week.

I do like that SE maintained a similar balance in the persuit of relics as they did with some of the AFs. Much like Relic Gun, it wouldn't suprise me of the path to Death Penalty and the RNG Relic Crossbow were somewhat cheaper than the rest of the relics, SE did acknowledge RNGs have a constant expense and thier upgrade items were actually rather common items, though its the currency grind that makes it still somewhat impractical to persue Annihilator for many RNGs.

Are COR and RNG jobs that have it easier on Armor 1-75? Totally. Relics have and probably will continue to reflect that. The jobs that didn't have so many expenses 1-75 are the ones I expect to continue to get boned a bit harder and thier relics even more difficult to obtain.

[Temagori]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

I have to say I agree with kitten. The more gil-intensive jobs are balanced somewhere to a degree and I think that's just SE's way of saying, "Hey, we know it's expensive to upkeep, but here's a tax break for ya" lol.

I don't mind Dynamis, but I think that these new relics, since they will be undoubtedly weaker, should be easier by margin to obtain then the current ones. I was speaking with a friend of mine last night who has the Apocalypse and the thought that his Scythe could be getting an upgrade to set it further apart from other weapons excited him.

I'm sure that they wouldn't be insane increases, but the equivelant of a +1 version of the current relics is probably what SE has in mind. I am curious to see if they make these new relics similar in stages to dynamis ones in the fact that at the next to last stage you actually have access to it's latent end-game WS in dynamis.

Maybe we can get access to the new WS when we are in salvage, assault, or something similar. Who knows, I just have high hopes.

[Ziero]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

What about, people would be more likely to get adjurbations, kirin osode set, and relic armor with at least 2 relic +1 in the time it take to get one of these weapons or less. And if its Nyzle Isle to gain the new relic, getting them would be less of a chore than dynamis ones.
Overall its how we want something thats the original to be gained by a less drama means governed by the current system when the new ones could be more simple like a ZM static.

But...that's the point. It's because so much more would be needed that makes these weapons far more special then those other things, which by comparison are easier to obtain. And SE pretty much confirmed that Nyzul weapons would be easier to obtain then Dynamis one, but they wouldn't be as strong.

Ziero, I understand your point. But I think you need to come away with concepts when people throw out ideas instead of assuming they're implying a perfect copy/paste. What I mean is..

Ok, CoP-like system. Like obtaining a CoP ring. But it doesn't have to be just another CoP. It would still require a lot of gil, a lot of friends, a lot of skill. It should still take an individual 6 months+ to get through the upgrades. This means at least some portion must be made a grind, but it doesn't have to be complete grind.

Dynamis wouldn't be dynamis if it didn't take place in... Dynamis. That's why I suggest minor tweaks to the current relic quests. I'd just like to see more things capable of being accomplished via rare/ex means. My previous idea would certainly be "grinding" but 50 dynamis + 10 KS99s beats the shit out of 100 dynamis. Plus, you'd have all the exp accrued from earning those seals.

Still, not that my idea is perfect. But you can't say "that doesn't work because there's still a grind to it." We can't eliminate grind. That's what First Person Shooters are for. We can, however, lessen it as much as possible. Diversify once every 4 years.

I will agree that this is the best suggestion I've personally heard about 'fixing' Dyna weapons, regardless of whether it's still a grind or not.

All I saw was a series of quotes from me that Zeiro responded to, when you start splitting down posts that far, the conversation has ended and someone is trying so very hard to "win at the internet."

Actually that's me disagreeing with some of your, and two other people's, points while agreeing with others. Perhaps if you've taken the time to *read* the post instead of sticking your hands over your eyes and scream "Lalala I can't see you so I'm right!" you would have realized that. Especially when you're response seems to have nothing to do with the topic at hand. But then again, it seems just ignoring people who disagree with you is better then actually discussing something civilly.

[Lmnop]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Soooo would it be overpowered if the "new relic" dagger had 150 delay and 100% additional effect: stun?

Relic-THF = perma chain-stun. That'd get a slot in alliances...

[Akashimo]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Soooo would it be overpowered if the "new relic" dagger had 150 delay and 100% additional effect: stun?

Relic-THF = perma chain-stun. That'd get a slot in alliances...

So broken, but better than the additional effect poison from mandau imho.
Plus then i wouldn't have the nagging feeling of causing a wipe cause of that poison.

[Malacite]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

I'd rather it have something janky like doubling the DEX modifier for Sneak Attack.

[Temagori]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Agreed the THF one should enhance the SATA in some form. But knowing SE they will.... Enhance the Hide Effect~! ZOMG!

[Lmnop]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Yes, because more damage is always the answer...

Meh, I think as of the time of this posting, I'm not really sure I care what ends up on these weapons. I have complete faith that S-E will either get it right or screw it up.

Yeah.

[Feba]

Re: The Myriad Arms of Balrahn (02/05/2008)

Yes, because more damage is always the answer...

How can you possibly be helping people if your name doesn't have the largest number on the parser?

Learn how to play, Alphabet.