Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

That's a good point. With the way they talk about the difficulty of changing the way battle music works, it sounds like they've had to dig a little deeper into the code than most of their other updates.

It sounds like what they have trouble with isn't something buried deep, but with translating the simple and intuitive idea "Play battle music when I'm fighting" into actual code, because the "mode" of "I'm fighting" is in the players' heads, not a binary flag on the server.

Distance to targets engaged by party/alliance member is the obvious first "solution" (it's what I would've suggested), but obviously they found out it's a dumb idea after trying it out. They probably tried several variations of that over the years, tucked in between higher priority issues.

I'm quite curious what solution they came up with at last.

The optimist in me wants to think this is a sign that some of the game's other long-standing technical problems could see some polish.

In battle or otherwise, people have been complaining about the user interface for some time now, though I don't really see what most of the fuss is about; I'm perfectly fine with waiting for a TP macro telling me my SC partner is ready. (Lack of experience with other MMORPG's, I guess.)

Would like S-E to fix the message logs, though; Flash is not "blinded"--it's a different effect, and should have a different message. (I mean, if the JP client has a different message for gaining and losing effect of Flash than Blind, why can't the NA version do so as well?) Also, there should be text messages for shield blocking and guarding, like there are for evasion and parrying.

Other than that, I just want more compact messages; if AoE hits five targets, I don't really need 5 lines of text--one line with five targets listed (with damage dealt in parenthesis when applicable) will do.

* * *

While the list of coming updates in this notice wasn't earth shattering, I came away with a warm and fuzzy feeling that S-E cares. Good stuff.

* * *

Edit:

SMN's brokenness? The cost/drop rates of dynamis and broken state of Zilart end game?

- Obviously, the dev team isn't ready with the SMN fix(es).
- The Dynamis LS I'm in has been financially solvent for years now, I'm told. Since I've joined, I've yet to be asked to chip in for the entry fee. Perhaps you just need to join a more successful LS?
- Zilart endgame (by which I take you mean HNM) was broken by players greedy for gears which were meant to be rare and difficult to obtain.

S-E set up a playground. Players trashed it. Then, demanded S-E clean up the mess. The Devs are probably grumbling about why players aren't using the content as intended.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

Would like S-E to fix the message logs, though; Flash is not "blinded"--it's a different effect, and should have a different message. (I mean, if the JP client has a different message for gaining and losing effect of Flash than Blind, why can't the NA version do so as well?) Also, there should be text messages for shield blocking and guarding, like there are for evasion and parrying.

Other than that, I just want more compact messages; if AoE hits five targets, I don't really need 5 lines of text--one line with five targets listed (with damage dealt in parenthesis when applicable) will do.

So you want nitpicking information added and relevant information removed from the logs. Um, OK.

Flash does what to the target again, kids?

It blinds. Its a really potent and temporary form of blind, but its still blind.

As for Blocking and Guarding, if its going to be added to the log to show damage mitigation, then i want the filter for pet damage removed entirely so myths about pet jobs can be busted.

[Raydeus]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

The music thing is nice I guess, and the ability to store macros is kinda ok, but I'd rather see an increase on macro lines instead, lolreddish-purple.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

Flash does what to the target again, kids?

It blinds. Its a really potent and temporary form of blind, but its still blind.

0. Flash is not Blind; S-E made it so.
1. NA client should be at parity with JP client.
2. It's annoying when a party uses a Flash rotation (yes, such a thing exists) and Blind wears off in the middle of it, confusing the issue.

Minor? Probably, for most people. Still, it's a bug.

* * *

March is not Haste; they stack. Dia isn't Defense Down; they stack. Since Blind stacks with Flash, they are different effects, and so should have distinguishable messages.

[Dark Raz]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

What would it say?

"The <mob> is Flashed"?

[Neomage]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

I think it would be easier if SE made it so if any monster in a certain range is claimed by you or a party member, the battle music would play. I do like the alliance name-color change though.

As for more pressing concerns... Summoner is not half as broken as some jobs. I certainly see room for improvement, but what is really wrong with them right now? That they are "forced" to main heal in EXP parties? Even pre-70, Summoners can do great damage or support in parties today. The problem is not that Summoner is broken, it is the player mentality that Summoners are supposed to main heal.

The Playerbase also sees Ninja as a tank, Puppetmaster as gimp, and Scholar as the ultimate subjob but a horrible main. Sure, some adjustments could be made to improve the situation of these jobs, but as of right now they can do a pretty decent job by themselves if the playerbase would actually give them a chance. Andno amount of adjustments by SE will fix this unless SE makes them horribly overpowered.

As for Dynamis, I think it is fine just the way it is. When you talk to NPCs about Relic Weapons and Relic Armor, they act completely awestruck. YOU have Relic Armor? That is the stuff of legends! This is not meaningless blabber, though some players seem to think it is. That is SE's opinion on what the rarity and exclusiveness that Relic is supposed to be. The "age of great wealth" back when RMT were running rampant was never supposed to happen. You were never intended to buy items from a NPC for 3k and sell them on AH for 50k. You were never supposed to think of 100,000 gil as "Chump Change" Those who saw their oppertunity took advantage of a flaw in the system, and got as much relic armors as possible. Now that things are back to normal, if you want Relics, you have to work for them.

As for Zilart endgame being broken, I say SE has done an excellent job fixing it up. Any group of players with a common goal can now band together and easily farm the pop items for all of the Guardians(I dislike calling them gods). Keep in mind, this is supposed to be the entry to Paradise, the way to the Gate of the Gods. You are dealing with divine power here, the BCNM "Divine Might" just reinforces this. So the rewards should be really powerful.

[Feba]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

What would it say?

"The <mob> is Flashed"?

"<mob> receives the effect of Flash" or something similar would fit the normal descriptions best, iirc.
'

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

"<mob> receives the effect of Flash"

That's pretty much what the Japanese client says, IIRC.

[Celeal]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

I think one way to fix player base mentally ---- like SMN is broken, PUP is gimp, etc ---- is to fix it the same way as S-E fix 2-handed weapons: Scale up the power of the Job, overpower it a period of time. Then later when everyone is bandwagon on SMN or PUP, torn it's power down, nerf it.

[Omniblast]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

Maybe the battle music would wake up those half asleep mages standing in the back of a lolburn party.

Seriously, I didn't fall asleep guys, it's just that everyone's all nicely healed and hasted, what am I to do?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

0. Flash is not Blind; S-E made it so.
1. NA client should be at parity with JP client.
2. It's annoying when a party uses a Flash rotation (yes, such a thing exists) and Blind wears off in the middle of it, confusing the issue.

Minor? Probably, for most people. Still, it's a bug
* * *

March is not Haste; they stack. Dia isn't Defense Down; they stack. Since Blind stacks with Flash, they are different effects, and so should have distinguishable messages.

...

What's next, are Ballad and Evoker's Roll not Refresh abilites? You seem to want to make it more confusing than it has to be.

March is a form of Haste
Dia is a form of Defense Down
Flash is a form of Blind.

March reduces weapon delay and recast timers - what does Haste do?
Flash reduces the accuracy of a mob - what does blind do?

Just because it stack doesn't mean its an innately different status, it just means it stacks. Why wouldn't March stack with Haste? We'd have BRDs and RDMs cancelling each other out all the time if that were the case.

What is Blind ultimately? Accuracy Down. My screen doesn't go black when I'm blinded, I just start missing more often. Blind isn't nearly as strong as Flash in this regard, but both lower accuracy. Therefore, both would be a form a Accuracy Down and they all stack to inhibit accuracy.

I seriously don't see why these need different definitions than what we have.

[Neomage]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

When a Bard casts March on someone, it does not say [Player] receives the effect of Haste, no, it says they receive the effect of March. When a Ranger shoots a monster with a Acid Bolt, it does not say Additional Effect: Dia, it ways Additional Effect: Defence Down. Therefore, it only makes sense that when a player casts Flash on a monster, it should say they receive the effect of flash, not blinded.
______________________________

I think one way to fix player base mentally ---- like SMN is broken, PUP is gimp, etc ---- is to fix it the same way as S-E fix 2-handed weapons: Scale up the power of the Job, overpower it a period of time. Then later when everyone is bandwagon on SMN or PUP, torn it's power down, nerf it.

To start with,t hat is a bad idea. Jobs should never be overpowered. That is the anti-concept of balancing a game. That was a mistake on SE's part, and besides, the majority of endgame merit parties are still comprised mostly of Warrior/Ninja Dual-Wielding Axes. That update didn't really do much, considering that Daggers/Polearms should be better then Axes on Imps anyway.

[Feba]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

Maybe the battle music would wake up those half asleep mages standing in the back of a lolburn party.

I've fallen asleep in parties before.

Funny thing was, the Japanese players kept me around for thousands of EXPs before they kicked me out, for some reason.

[Mhurron]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

So when Ballad or Evoker's Roll wear off you get the message that 'Refresh Wears off?' When March wears, it tells you haste has worn? or when Dia wears that the mobs defense down has worn?

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Battle System Improvements (02/22/2008)

I think one way to fix player base mentally ---- like SMN is broken, PUP is gimp, etc ---- is to fix it the same way as S-E fix 2-handed weapons: Scale up the power of the Job, overpower it a period of time. Then later when everyone is bandwagon on SMN or PUP, torn it's power down, nerf it.

That is a terrible, terrible suggestion.