New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Most of the time, the dead lay out in the open, you'd have to have pretty crap settings on your PC not to see them. I can see them just fine on my PS2.

My PC is getting a little long in the tooth. â—€/blushâ–¶

At least some of the time, I don't see the dead body until the crowd stop stomping on it. Or, I see a dead body, but it's taking a long time trying to target it and--opps, AoE took down stoneskin. â—€Run away!â–¶. Rebuff! ... A few minutes later, I remember the dead body, and go back to check...

Then there are times I see a dead body, but I'm the only person on a monster. The carcass simply had to wait in that case, unless I didn't DoT my target. (RDM soloing is buff-buff-debuff-swing!-buff-debuff-buff, in case you forget--very busy.)

* * *

If you campaign battle is supposed to be group activity, invite people, form parties. ^_^b (Otherwise, don't complain about not getting help.)

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

What an absurd statement. It's called The Allied Campaign for a reason; like almost everything else in the game, it's geared around team work. Soloing is one thing, you should be able to cover your own ass or don't do it. In a Campaign Battle, we're all allies here and should look out for one another.

The 3 nations might be in an alliance, but we're all just hired mercenaries. Just because we're in the same area with a common goal doesn't mean we're team mates.

Whatever you think of the importance of backstory, it doesn't change the fact that we're all playing a video game, trying to enjoy the game in different ways. It's one thing to have expectations of a party member in an exp party. But to hold such expectations for random strangers who just happen to be nearby?

If you keep expecting random strangers to take care of your needs instead of taking responsibility for it yourself, you're bound to face constant disappointment and frustration.

[Malacite]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

If you keep expecting random strangers to take care of your needs instead of taking responsibility for it yourself, you're bound to face constant disappointment and frustration.

Right, because ya know, it's ever so easy to stay alive when One-Eye is being kited around and smacking people for 400+ every 5 seconds, or RR whenever I need to. Fuck team spirit!

/sigh

I don't demand anything from anyone. I just don't see why some random mage can't take the 10 seconds it takes to cast R1 and then get right back to w/e they were fighting. "ZOMG! I AM NOT GETTING MAH POINTZ!!!!!!1!!!!one!!!!"

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

I just don't see why some random mage can't take the 10 seconds it takes to cast R1 and then get right back to w/e they were fighting. "ZOMG! I AM NOT GETTING MAH POINTZ!!!!!!1!!!!one!!!!"

On Ifrit, anyway, I don't see people get left on the floor dead; sooner or later, they get raises. (Why mages don't always get to it right away, I've explained enough--that includes running away from AoE's, BTW.)

And, R1 base cast time is 15 seconds, not 10.

[Malacite]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

@. @ like 5 seconds is a such a huge deal, especially if ppl are/subbing RDM/SCH

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Yeah, I could make more macros which just cure people without changing equips, but I shouldn't have to. If someone wants/needs cured badly enough, they will ask for it.

Any RDM would have a list of macros dedicated to soloing, at least I know I did, and that would mean cut-and-pasting one list and then removing staves from all the spells.

Its so simple you only have to sit and do it once. And the macro update that preceded WotG actually makes this a bit easier than ever.

[Aksannyi]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Any RDM would have a list of macros dedicated to soloing, at least I know I did, and that would mean cut-and-pasting one list and then removing staves from all the spells.

Its so simple you only have to sit and do it once. And the macro update that preceded WotG actually makes this a bit easier than ever.

Ok BBQ, you've got me there, I do indeed need to do a major overhaul of my macros, and it has been a long time coming. I still have my macros set from when I only had one book to use, which (naturally) meant that things like cures casted while meleeing would have been strictly list-cast.

I still don't solo that often, not often enough to have made those macros the way I should but yes, I could make ones that don't swap a staff in.

That still doesn't mean I'm going to spend Campaign battles <stpc>ing the entire time.

[Nuriko]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Right, because ya know, it's ever so easy to stay alive when One-Eye is being kited around and smacking people for 400+ every 5 seconds, or RR whenever I need to. Fuck team spirit!

/sigh

I don't demand anything from anyone. I just don't see why some random mage can't take the 10 seconds it takes to cast R1 and then get right back to w/e they were fighting. "ZOMG! I AM NOT GETTING MAH POINTZ!!!!!!1!!!!one!!!!"

Give people a raise or two and you're down 300 MP. A mage's DDing had BETTER incorporate that MP (stoneskin at the VERY least, possibly haste, perhaps debuffs, some curebombs if it turns on you bigtime, and enough for emergency sleep) so they're either cutting safety margins beyond a point, or resting that MP back. Believe me, if I'm in a hurry to get people back up in Campaign (alternating R1 and R2), I can go through a lot of MP very quickly. It's not necessarily "toss a raise, back into the fight".

Of course, mages not willing to raise given something of a break would be really bad.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

@. @ like 5 seconds is a such a huge deal, especially if ppl are/subbing RDM/SCH

And, how long to spend /heal on, doing nothing to earn experience points after a raise or three which depletes MP?

I raise and cure random people (when I can) because I want to, but no mage should be forced to feel guilty for not curing or raising people during battle--if it's not in the mage's party, it's not the mage's responsibility.

There is an exception: melees who uses provoke and tank. Those melees who help keep mages and others safe deserves cures (and raises when applicable). Otherwise, if you're not doing the mages any favor, why expect them not to treat you the same?

* * *

Actually, let's turn this discussion around.

To those melees complaining about not getting cures: Move away, take a kneel, /heal on, so you can get your HP back.

It's what most mages have to do for MP at least some of the time, so there's no reason you can't bring hHP equipment and rest back whatever HP you lose. (Aren't there cookies just for that?) MP may be free, but so is HP. (With Sigil's hHP and auto regen, it's more practical than ever, too.)

As for not not getting raises during battle, think of it this way: when you are exp'ing next to another party, and your party wipes, do you think the other party's mages should drop what they are doing right there and then and come raise your party?

Of course you wouldn't--you send a polite /tell, and wait for their exp chain to come to a halt, then their mages can rest. After they have adequate MP, then they can come raise your party.

No difference in Champaign; if the mages feel they are too busy or can't spare the MP at the moment, they have every right to wait until the condition improves or the battle ends. That is, if they even notice you in the chaos--send a polite /tell, and wait for your turn.

* * *

If anyone doesn't like that, s/he is free to form parties with a balance of melees and mages, so they can work together like, well, a party. I know I enjoy that more than soloing during campaign battles.

[LilithAngel]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Mages that do their part and help out others is fine and dandy, and Mages that have capped out (and merited) their weapon of choice, and bring an actual melee weapon, is ok, as long as they're not doing shitty damage, feeding TP to a mob. Black Halo is some pretty nifty damage in its own right. If you gear for it.

However.

If I see someone run up to a mob I'm fighting, and they're a Summoner, Scholar, or a job ending in Mage (and their first name isn't Blue or Red) they had damn well better pull out the cures and support or they can tank the mob (Hydro Shot is nice to force someone else to tank ). I'll sit back and watch. I (and many other tanks, be they Paladin, Ninja, or some hybrid bred of nessesity like DRK/DNC) don't need some mage that's foaming at the mouth, wanting those frontline points, doing nothing more than feeding the monster TP, while at the same time they don't even bother with the courtesy of healing the damage they are causing to the other player. A lot of jobs can get by with just themselves or another job or two that's a real DD swinging as well, but toss in a job that has no real melee capability as well (that is, your damage/tp given ratio isn't something retarded), and they get overwhelmed by TP attacks, and it's usually the case that the situation can be directly pointed back at the lolmelee mage trying to get points.

That shit needs to stop, cuz it's fucking stupid. Yes, SE needs to up the support rewards, but people also need to stop being idiots. There's a reason people have issues with lolmelee mages; they don't contribute a damn thing half the time other than free TP to the mobs, and don't help anyone when all that TP they give comes over to bite the tank in the ass. That's the shit that pisses me off about Campaign more than anything.

If you wanna melee, stop gearing up as a damn mage and bring a real weapon (not some damn elemental toothpick), or level a melee job, then bring that to Campaign. At least then you'll be contributing for a change. Oh, and sub /WHM or /DNC. Cuz, apparently, mages don't need to look out for others when all they (mages) do is feed TP to the mobs.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

If I see someone run up to a mob I'm fighting, and they're a Summoner, Scholar, or a job ending in Mage (and their first name isn't Blue or Red) they had damn well better pull out the cures and support or they can tank the mob (Hydro Shot is nice to force someone else to tank ). I'll sit back and watch.

Go ahead and sit back.

I've seen WHMs tanking NQ critters and SMNs using avatars as tanks. Neither had much problem. Soloing SCH and BLM? The smart ones gravity, bind, and generally kite and nuke if no one else is beating on the monster. Feel free the let the stupid ones get K.O.'ed--it's not your responsibility.

The point is, mages don't really need the melees to get exp in Champaign, and the melees don't really need the mages, either. The fact that most people are doing their own things in champaign, and not in parties, should be ample evidence of that.

"Soloing" means you don't want to work with others. If you change your mind--if you want to protect mages and want mages to cure--invite people, especially mages, to join your party.

[Kuro]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

I was wondering what those thigns were in the dat files. Seem like some good additions, but will probably only make things harder. Not very good for the low lv players.

Would be nice if they made the normal monsters weaker butadded more of the strong ones from these spawning err... things.

[LilithAngel]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Itazura: Let me let you in on something.

Kujatan mages are fucking morons.

They run up and swing for the fences thinking they're fucking Casey Jones, but instead of hockey sticks or baseball bats, they're packing toothpicks. One for each element. With no skill whatsoever. In fucking Dalmatica. They latch onto the nearest mob that's being tanked by someone that's not them, and do the Monk thing: hit Auto-Attack and go make a sammich or some shit. Those are the mages I have issues with, because those are the mages that populate Kujata.

The White Mage that's packing Seawolf, Reverend, W. Turban, and busting out Black Halo alongside their cures and buffs are the type of mages that's one in a million here. I wish there were more people on my server that did that shit; not only are they looking out for others (as they damn well should be if they're gonna melee on someone else's mob), but they're justifying their bid to melee in more ways than one.

If they decide to go off and solo, good on them, I don't care. When they jump on someone else's mob, they automatically assume responsibility. This is the same for everyone; when I jump on someone else's mob as my BLU/PLD, I damn well make sure I'm actually helping out by expediting the mob's death, as well as make sure the mob doesn't do much to the tank, and as a BLU/PLD, I can lock a mob down easy. The problem is when people just don't think about what it is they're doing in these things, and wonder why people get so pissed when they run up and start acting like a damn liability.

[Vyuru]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Actually, let's turn this discussion around.

To those melees complaining about not getting cures: Move away, take a kneel, /heal on, so you can get your HP back.

You know, my complaint isn't that I (or someone else) am not getting cures inbetween mobs, we can rest well enough then. It is when you are fighting a mob, and in 99.999% of the time it is the person tanking it, and it's pretty damn obvious to everyone that you need a cure, yet the mages don't give you one.

And by obvious I should say it's obvious to the drg/rdm who also has all sorts of things filtered out that the person who currently has hate needs some white magey loving.

Yeah I'll toss them a few cures, but keep in mind my MP is pretty limited as drg/rdm compared to a full up lvl 75 mage, even if I toss on all of my +mp gear.

I guess my biggest issue is, I'm not asking unreasonable things of some mages. If I can easily do it with my limited healing experience, then I darn well expect a full up lvl 75 mage to be helping out when it is needed.

Note, I am not saying that they should be tossing cures left and right, but for things like NMs where there is obviously one person holding hate? It's easy to keep an eye on their hp while you fight even if they aren't in your party. Inbetween waves and see a dead body? Toss it a Raise assuming you have the MP for it.

I'm not going to ask a mage for a raise in Campaign in the middle of the fight, but inbetween fights or immediatly after the Campaign ends? Yeah, that'd be nice.

I (and many other tanks, be they Paladin, Ninja, or some hybrid bred of nessesity like DRK/DNC) don't need some mage that's foaming at the mouth, wanting those frontline points, doing nothing more than feeding the monster TP, while at the same time they don't even bother with the courtesy of healing the damage they are causing to the other player.

Thankfully most of the time the melee mages are actually quite nicely geared for DD, so they support their own damage and they do help out with Paralyze/Blind/Dia/Flash/whatever.

It's the oddball mage who runs up and spams dia/bio/tier I nukes/weak stuff that irks me. I seldom can keep up the curing needed for that much TP spammage. In that case I WILL Super Jump the hate onto them and move on.

Really people, if you want to bring a low level job to Campaign, and I'm assuming it's low level if they are spamming tier I nukes, sub bard, spam about 10-12 songs, turn in your tags and get new ones. Rinse and repeat as needed.

Believe me, if I'm in a hurry to get people back up in Campaign (alternating R1 and R2), I can go through a lot of MP very quickly. It's not necessarily "toss a raise, back into the fight".

That's understandable, but alot of times I see it where there are more Rdm or Whm just standing around than there are dead bodies, so it's not like we're asking one mage to raise the zone either.

[Mhurron]

Re: New Campaign Elements (02/07/2008)

Again with the negative "me me me" attitude.

Guess what, the "Heal and raise me or GTFO" is a me me me attitude, which you're apperently fine with as long as you're on the receiving end.