Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

[Raydeus]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

You didn't read my post.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Ha ha ha. Now tell me one situation where a SCH would be your first choice to invite. What camp, what party setup, what situation would they be anything other than a substitute for the job you can't find? And a poor substitute at that?

So I guess you don't take less than WAR for melee and NIN for tank, right? Because those are the "first choice" for anyone these days, but that doesn't invalidate other jobs. Guess we're all chumps if we don't level those jobs, eh?

I've certainly not had much trouble getting to 49, but i'm well-aware of what the snag in invites is right now - not the fact that I'm SCH, but that nasty 49-54 section of the game (G1 and G2). If you're not PLD, NIN, RDM, BRD or COR, anyone that isn't those jobs is screwed there.

At any rate its still a new job with kinks to work out, as big a lovefest that surrounds DNC, its not perfect, either. Several jobs are getting updates, too. But no matter how you cut it, no one job is going to always be #1 for everything.

I've main healed SCH and done a damn good job of it, done the nuking enfeebling as well. Its not terribly far removed from how RDM plays, minus Haste, Refresh and Convert, but also had some tricks to call its own and its quite efficient on MP, its never been an issue for me.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

I think you may be (intentionally) misunderstanding Karinya's point, BBQ.

Before SCH has its unique spells:
- Party wants a nuker, and BLM and SCH both are seeking. Why invite SCH over BLM?
- Party wants a healer, and RDM, WHM, and SCH are seeking. Why invite SCH over the other two?
- Party has an extra slot, any job can fit. Why invite SCH over... well, anything?

It's not about not allowing anything but the best, but when you have choices, why pick SCH? The community' inability to answer that is why many people believe SCH should receive some upgrades.

My SCH is 35, now finally. I'm resign to the situation that I'm a leftover choice, to be invited only when the party don't see RDM, WHM, and BLM looking for an invite. (More EP worm nuking for me. Bleh.) Heck, even the overly popular DNC get invites faster, in all likelihood.

[Truece]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Updates for WHM and RDM would be nice, imho. Why? Because those are the jobs that I play the most and I want something new to explore. I really don't care what it is, so long as it puts a new spin (no matter how slight) to the two jobs that I really enjoy playing.

That being said, I look forward to any updates to the jobs that need it (ie the ones which haven't received any job-specific updates in the last year). Updates like that always get people back to thinking about the game and trying new things. Yeah, there'll be whining about how an update to one job nerfs another, but generally speaking, these updates put a spark in most players and extend their enjoyment of the game.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Like Ray said, every job should get a bone thrown it's way now and then whether or not it needs it, otherwise it just gets stale.

MNK and RDM have not gotten anything in ages. What was the last thing MNK got? Oh yeah, Kick Attacks. Joy. How about giving us nunchaku, and classifying them as another H2H weapon but with Impact damage? That'd be damn sweet IMO. Obviously the jobs that need attention (PLD, SMN, WAR) should get priority but that doesn't mean the other jobs shouldn't ever get anything new.

Or maybe drums for BRD? Actually I think the single most aggravating aspect of BRD is the fact that every god damn song sounds the same. This is just a hunch, but if each song sounded as it should a lot more people might try the job.

I'd like to see SE do something about this but it's most likely never gonna happen. I don't know if it was done for simplicity sake, or to because of memory limitations on the PS2's part, but if SE could change BRD so that each song type (Minuets, Ballads, Mambos, etc) sounded as they should I'd be grateful and might even get a kick out of the job again.

But that would be an assload of work on their part.


... and apparently is too much to ask for

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

I think part of the reasoning behind wanting stave skill upped is it actually makes meleeing with them worth a damn, not to mention it would possibly net you Spirit Taker.

Marksmanship for what reason? Don't tell me the reason being Elviera and her crew, because then I can point out the Lutata with three elementals, the BST NPC with two roc pets (BSTs can't charm those) and so on, those NPCs get to break the rules just because they're NPCs. Yeah, Elveira has RDM relic and totes Annihilator, she's just another one that breaks the rules.

The above fix is also designed to obliterate our need for staves in the first place. I have no idea why everybody's so anxious for a Staff skill when it will do practically nothing for us (except maybe a two-handed weapon). Personally, I'd rather have Marksmanship back then to have Staves on a Red Mage, an I'm really content with my Archery as is.

You seemed to have missed my point: I don't exactly want Marksmanship (though I do hear RDM did, indeed, have it originally), but, really, it would be far preferable and make much more sense than a Staff-wielding Red Mage (if you completely ignore Player Characters 51+, so bear with me)

Yeah, Elviera may be an exception to the rule, and, to be honest, she wasn't even on my mind when I made a statement which had a point solely stating that Red Mages don't need, nor are in the flavor of a Staff skill, but, seriously, do you know of any RDM NPCs who wield Staves? (Run-on ftw, btw.)

I mean, that by itself is one point for Marksmanship, zero for Staff in the Red Mage canon.

And, Spirit Taker? If we were that desperate for MP we'd go the already available Club route and use Starlight/Moonlight (which are both readily available with the de facto sub /WHM).

Did I mention they should just remove RDM altogether?

Right, and Warrior and Black Mage and Beastmaster and Dragoon and Blue Mage and Scholar, too; I mean, what is this, "Final Fantasy" or something?

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

You didn't read my post.

Which one? The one that was all wantwantwantzomgnewtoys? I read that one.

If Monk needs anything it's something to help distinguish it before Raging Fists. It's skill chain potential is weak, but that's hardly an issue these days.

Updates for WHM and RDM would be nice, imho. Why? Because those are the jobs that I play the most and I want something new to explore. I really don't care what it is, so long as it puts a new spin (no matter how slight) to the two jobs that I really enjoy playing.

Funny stuff. Most Rdms can be more specific though, like asking for a native dual wield trait, or Blinkskin or something.

[Truece]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Most Rdms can be more specific though, like asking for a native dual wield trait, or Blinkskin or something.

Well, I was super-excited when I found out that they gave WHM repose, so I'm pretty easy to please!!

Really, though, what about lowering the recast of convert to 5 mins, adding a few extra tiers of Refresh and Enspells, and giving RDMs (Re)Raise II & III? Is that asking too much?

[Karinya]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

I think you may be (intentionally) misunderstanding Karinya's point, BBQ.

Before SCH has its unique spells:

And for 20 levels after it starts getting them, too, because its first set of unique spells are just "huh? Why would I care about that? Weather effects hardly ever go off anyway" (since it's way before the level for obis, even if you have them). Only a few jobs get any benefit at all from a weather effect, and when they do, it isn't much. Other jobs around that same level (or sooner) are getting Erase, Dispel, Haste, Refresh... putting the SCH farther behind than ever in overall usefulness, since it gets none of those natively, and at most one at a time through a subjob in the mid-60s.

My SCH is 35, now finally. I'm resign to the situation that I'm a leftover choice, to be invited only when the party don't see RDM, WHM, and BLM looking for an invite. (More EP worm nuking for me. Bleh.) Heck, even the overly popular DNC get invites faster, in all likelihood.

Well, DNC is actually really useful. Which you can't say for SCH.

[Feba]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

I'm a Drgpldpup.

This explains why I lol at you so much.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Well, DNC is actually really useful. Which you can't say for SCH.

Would you take a DNC to a 40 cap BC?
What about BCNM 20 and 30s?
Kirin Fight?
What about mobs you don't want TPed?
Would you PT with one before 15?
Would you invite one to a Caedarva Mire PT?
Manaburn?
Arrowburn?
Avatarburn?
Sacarium NMs and Fomors?
Any mob that wipes TP?


Did I mention there's no cure for Amnesia other than waiting it out? It wasn't fun for CORs, but at least they could still really DoT in the meantime. DNC can hardly do that.

See, I can pick on DNC in various situations if I wanted to. Its dependancy on TP in conjuction with lower tier daggers puts it in quite a few sore spots as well. SCH's issues can be overcome simply by levelling - all it has to worry about is silence and being stuffed into a healer role. It can join a manaburn or TP burn, more than welcome in most level capped situations (Cure III is at 30, after all).

DNC is a COP cripple til 60, I can't say that about SCH. Only difference between a SCH and WHM for 30 caps would be raise and reraise.

Seems your outlook on SCH is entirely based on EXP. If I were to say DNC was only good for EXP, would you argue against that? They don't have any useful endgame functions I'm aware of and due to the nature of most strategies, you'd likely be asked for another job before you came DNC.

No one thing is the only situation for a job and that is why your view is so shallow. You want to obsess about the time between 1-60 for SCH? What about DRG from 50-74? RDM from 1-39? PUP from 1-50? BLU from 1-60? What about all those vendor trash BRD spells? NIN and BRD don't get JAs between levels 2 and 74, big gap if you ask me.

If you want to complain about weaknesses and gaps, I have quite a few complaint I could make about this. /NIN might be powerful due to utsusemi and DW, doesn't mean its lacking elsewhere. BRD might be popular, but SE has started to realize some flaws in it. DRG and PUP are finally rising out of LOL status, but it doesn't mean the lack of JA growth is acceptable. RDM 1-39? You couldn't pay me to do it again, I see why it was so pathetic pre-Zilart without Refresh, Haste and Convert.

At least now with SCH you can be invited to help free up obligations a RDM, SMN or WHM may not wish to fill entirely on thier own. In fact, I have arrangements to play SCH so a SMN doesn't have to be a main healer. I'm staticing DNC with a RDM so they don't have to be a the main healer. This is the intention of these jobs - to share the load and they do just that.

You're looking at "either/or." You're looking at SCH like RDM > WHM > SCH, not "What can I do with a RDM and a SCH or WHM and a SCH?" Do you think this way with BRDs and COR? Nothing matches BRD + COR, I can tell you that, but you probably just take the BRD, right?