Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Anyway, where SCH really falls apart IMO is as a main job at low to mid levels. Stratagems have a long timer, the interesting ones come late, and their spell list is just too limited, even with the aid of a subjob. There's nothing a SCH can do that someone else can't do as well or better until 40, and even then it's just Regenga II (all the other neat Accession tricks require a spell that you have to get through a subjob, in the 50s or later; or are arbitrarily banned like Accession+Raise or Reraise). Meanwhile they're a limited, Eraseless and Hasteless healer or a low-skill, MAB-less nuker. (Or both, aka pre-Refresh RDM with about half the spells.)

Job is limited til 40/50+?
Job abilities growing is strength over the course or levelling as you have more ways to use them?

Madness! No Job goes through that!

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

>. > to be fair, DRG and PUP are downright broken in the early levels if you're well prepared XD

[Karinya]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

This is a dead horse issue, suffice to say the community knows that SMN is in bad need of an overhaul.

Not true, many players believe that it's pretty good as it is and only needs a few broken BPs fixed and *maybe* another adjustment to perp costs.
______________________________

Job is limited til 40/50+?
Job abilities growing is strength over the course or levelling as you have more ways to use them?

Madness! No Job goes through that!

Ha ha ha. Now tell me one situation where a SCH would be your first choice to invite. What camp, what party setup, what situation would they be anything other than a substitute for the job you can't find? And a poor substitute at that?

Do you really think there's nothing wrong with that?

A job has to be playable and useful at all levels or it isn't complete and balanced.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Those players are blind. Even SE has acknowledged this, though they sure are taking their sweet time with fixing it.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

This may sound like QQing to an extent, as I'll admit that RDM is even pretty broken to a point with some of the things it can do, but I still feel hurting for some things that would allow me to, as BBQ put it, explore every angle of the job.

When I leveled BRD, I expected it to be a very 1-dimensional job, singing songs, and not much past that. That's what it is, which is fine, that's what I signed up to do. If I wanted to do something else 1-dimensional, such as main healing, I'd go ahead and level WHM. Not that I complain when it nets good xp/hr, it's just that I'm using a miniscule part of my capabilities by doing it, and it gets stale in a hurry. However, for my main job, I signed up to be something that is a jack-of-all-trades, not excellent at pretty much anything, but at least profficient at most of them, and yes, meleeing included.

Here here (or however it's spelled)!

Alot of them are really tiny fixes I'd like to see. I'd like Enlight/Endark, simply because it's bothersome that I can take advantage of 6/8 days of the week and Elemental weaknesses, but not 2 of them. I'd like to see Enstatus spells simply because they'd be cool to use in low-man things, which are making a comeback. I'd like to have staff skill because I'm pretty much forced to carry around 8 fucking staves at all times, and it'd be nice to have skill with them just for the sake of having it. And finally, I'd like to have EX weaponskills just because it's annoying as shit that another Mage(job with 'Mage' actually in their friggin name!) gets them, along with higher weapon skill ranks, despite RDM, in terms of job description(hi2uDuelist/Fencer), seemingly supposed to be better with a Sword.

Actually, I can live without each of those fixes. First off, I'd rather have Enspells actually fixed to mean something more than soloing a random NM over hours before I had fancier-looking ones. A huge way to boost our melee capabilities is to throw the Staves out of the picture, and a perfect way to do that is to implement the effect of the Staves as a bonus enchantment for our already laid-out Enspells. When they start doing something useful like that, then we can get to talking Enlight/dark/whatever.

The above fix is also designed to obliterate our need for staves in the first place. I have no idea why everybody's so anxious for a Staff skill when it will do practically nothing for us (except maybe a two-handed weapon). Personally, I'd rather have Marksmanship back then to have Staves on a Red Mage, an I'm really content with my Archery as is. (Hey, I just thought it'd be cool if FFXI ever had something like an Arcane Archer job that had both MP-spells and EX-weaponskills with a bow . . . ah, but I digress.) Also preferable to any new skills is some love for us one-handed weapons. Why oh why did they not give us one-handers (including us Red Mages, whose entire melee arsenal is and should be one-handed-based) the DEX -> Accuracy adjustment? It would not have broken Dual Wield or anything, and it doesn't punish us who actually use a Shield!

And I can even live without the native EX weaponskills (we have subjobs for that), so long as our native melee is at least better than a flippin' White Mage's!!!

Aside from that, maybe little tiny things, like RR1 and Regen II(RR1 more than anything, it's not really asking that much, and it's not game-changing in any way), and maybe some adjustments being made so that it's actually worth busting your ass to get to 310+ Enfeebling Skill(show me a BLM w/ 310+ Elemental that gets resisted as much as a RDM's Debuffs do).

Not so keen of the former (even more healing spells for us than we already have would be more game-breaking than one would think), but I'm loving the latter!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

The above fix is also designed to obliterate our need for staves in the first place. I have no idea why everybody's so anxious for a Staff skill when it will do practically nothing for us (except maybe a two-handed weapon). Personally, I'd rather have Marksmanship back then to have Staves on a Red Mage, an I'm really content with my Archery as is.

I think part of the reasoning behind wanting stave skill upped is it actually makes meleeing with them worth a damn, not to mention it would possibly net you Spirit Taker.

Marksmanship for what reason? Don't tell me the reason being Elviera and her crew, because then I can point out the Lutata with three elementals, the BST NPC with two roc pets (BSTs can't charm those) and so on, those NPCs get to break the rules just because they're NPCs. Yeah, Elveira has RDM relic and totes Annihilator, she's just another one that breaks the rules.

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Not this RDM crap again.

[Pteryx]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

So what? Every sub doesn't have to be useful for every purpose. /SCH lacks versatility because of SCH's gimpy spell list; that's part of the design of SCH. It's powerful enough for a situation where you mainly just want to use your main job's spells anyway, that it doesn't need to *also* be good in situations where you want the wider spell list you'd get from /WHM, /RDM or whatever.

I agree that /SCH is designed decently as a party sub. The main problems with it in that regard are the Arts' and subbable Strategems' benefits being completely unapparent to the front line. Front-liners can notice the benefit of having a mage not be one-shotted, or having status cures. Having slightly quicker, discounted, and in some cases stickier spells, though, is completely invisible to them... and unfortunately, front-liners are the driving forces in XP.

Anyway, where SCH really falls apart IMO is as a main job at low to mid levels. Stratagems have a long timer, the interesting ones come late, and their spell list is just too limited, even with the aid of a subjob. There's nothing a SCH can do that someone else can't do as well or better until 40, and even then it's just Regenga II (all the other neat Accession tricks require a spell that you have to get through a subjob, in the 50s or later; or are arbitrarily banned like Accession+Raise or Reraise). Meanwhile they're a limited, Eraseless and Hasteless healer or a low-skill, MAB-less nuker. (Or both, aka pre-Refresh RDM with about half the spells.)

And of course, anyone who doesn't level it as a main can't use it as a sub.

I agree that SCH needs help as a main. It gains Cure II in particular too late (which also hurts it as a sub), its defining tricks are non-flashy and completely personal in benefit, it gets no impressive unique spells until level 61...

How I'd personally tweak SCH:

* Give SCH one more subbable Strategem pair, perhaps in the 15-20 range, which halves the Enmity generated by the next white/black spell cast. This gives the job, and more importantly subjob, a more obvious team player benefit.
* Lower the Cure spell gain levels: Cure at 4, Cure II at 15, Cure III at 28, Cure IV at 52. Gaining Cures later than RDM is fine, but if they're supposed to be considered for healing at all, they should learn Cures earlier than a bloody Paladin. Especially Cure II.
* Rename the current *helix spells to *helix II spells, and make a subbable first-tier set. These would have about a fifth to a tenth of the damage per tick and only about three-quarters the duration and still wouldn't stack, but it would say to people, "hey, SCHs do DoT", give people something semi-uniquely Scholarish as a subbable spell, and make the weather spells actually directly useful to SCH at the levels they gain them, since those have a dramatic effect on Helix effectiveness.
* Give Scholar its own unique subbable defensive spells that require a little more thought to use than Blink and Stoneskin -- spells that are damage-type-specific, or change the nature of the danger into something easier to handle (such as the lump sum damage -> DoT conversion idea). /WHM and /RDM would remain superior defensively, but if applied intelligently /SCH at least wouldn't be helpless. -- Pteryx

[Raydeus]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Not this RDM crap again.

Did I mention I want Kam'lanaut's Elemental Blade spells? Specially if they keep the absorb magic from the same element effect.

[Malacite]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)



{Can I have it?}

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Did I mention I want Kam'lanaut's Elemental Blade spells? Specially if they keep the absorb magic from the same element effect.

Did I mention they should just remove RDM altogether?

[Raydeus]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

So much hate.

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

The whole wantwantwant thing is getting old. They have a guarunteed spot in a party for the majority of the game, and though I would think those who spend the most time seeking would spend the most time complaining, it's somehow the other way around.

[Raydeus]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

One thing has nothing to do with the other though.

RDMs have the same right to get new stuff to play with from time to time as any other job. Some jobs do need improvements so they are better balanced, perform better and have a better chance at getting parties, but that's a different issue.

The thing is RDMs haven't gotten a significant addition in a really long time (group II merits are a joke), so it's only natural RDMs out there are looking forward to getting some new stuff.

[DakAttack]

Re: Version Update Notice (02/05/2008)

Almost every single time I read a post where a Rdm complains it's pure want. There's no need. With every single update and change made to the game Rdms have maintained their position in parties, so I would say they've been well balanced the entire time. I wouldn't care if SE threw some new spells their way either, but it's always the same thing with the players. We should have A+ sword, we should have better enspells, we should have more offensive spells, we should have this, we should have that, I'm tired of soloing Genbu, why can't I solo Kirin? There's always envy of another job as well.

Guess what? You're playing FFXI, so go level that job. When I played Drg and wanted to tank I didn't complain on forums, I switched to Pld. When I want to knuckle up I switch to Pup. I'm not a Drg, Pld, or Pup. I'm a Drgpldpup.