Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

[Vyuru]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

We xp'ed in Purgonorgo Isle last night and it was awesome. There was no one around and the only downtime came from clearing the area a couple times and waiting a minute or two for the repops. We're all 34-35 now so I'm planning to drag them out to Behemoth's Dominion for the next session.

What level where you guys and what did you exp on there? It looks like a great place to exp if you can get a group to go. And the Behemoth's Dominion rocks, it's like better than Altepa :D

[eticket109]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

What level where you guys and what did you exp on there? It looks like a great place to exp if you can get a group to go. And the Behemoth's Dominion rocks, it's like better than Altepa :D

I think when we started we were 32-33 mostly. We camped in the SW square clearing on the map and went back and forth between mandies and birds. Once one of us hit 35 it seemed to dent it a bit but the killing was so fast at that point it didn't matter much. The cool thing is, while they can link none of the mobs in the area aggro at all so its pretty safe.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

Or how about the 2h updates are great for damage, and the fStr was stated against high def and higher level mobs (not tending to be exp mobs). The grips don't favor defensive actions like utsu does.

You do not know that yet.

-Delay is part of the equation for grips, SE said there will also be other benefits for grips besides -% Delay. Could be attack, accuracy, +MAB, +Magic Accuracy, -recast, +evasion...

Anything.

[Sevv]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

lolpup
(Sorry, I just had to)

It is ok we all have to.

I personally love to xp in the out of the way zones. A group of friends and I have been leveling subjobs lately. We xp'ed in Purgonorgo Isle last night and it was awesome. There was no one around and the only downtime came from clearing the area a couple times and waiting a minute or two for the repops. We're all 34-35 now so I'm planning to drag them out to Behemoth's Dominion for the next session.

See that is what I do when I can get my friends to exp, because I love traveling if it is friends and we are not going to disband in 30 min.

Oh, my bad. Oh well, my husband used my character a few weeks ago and installed the unofficial one on my computer already ... as much as I bitched at him, it's kind of handy to do homework while lfp. >.>;
Edit: I only say loldrk to my husband, who lolrdms me right back. And then someone inevitably comes in with lolaks, which then turns into the crazy lolanythingyoucanthinkofinlinkshellchat.
LOL.

Lolyoucantlolaksorshewillsleepbindnukeyoutodeath

Fuck Yes!!!
OMG! I might actually go back to my WAR now! Please please PLEASE SE FIX Raging Rush and power up full break!

Billboard sized swears all right! Meh Rush could use a big boost, don't use full break enough to really comment on it.

You do not know that yet.
-Delay is part of the equation for grips, SE said there will also be other benefits for grips on other jobs. Could be attack, accuracy, +MAB, anything.

If a grip allows you to cast ustu or seigan third eye, the item is broken.

And nothing unless they make a new defesnive damage migration move, comes close, so yes I do know that.

[Malacite]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

It is ok we all have to.



See that is what I do when I can get my friends to exp, because I love traveling if it is friends and we are not going to disband in 30 min.



Lolyoucantlolaksorshewillsleepbindnukeyoutodeath




Billboard sized swears all right! Meh Rush could use a big boost, don't use full break enough to really comment on it.




If a grip allows you to cast ustu or seigan third eye, the item is broken.

And nothing unless they make a new defesnive damage migration move, comes close, so yes I do know that.

well, I just couldn't contain myself. The whole reason I dropped my WAR was because all I ever did was /NIN and axe/axe because great axe sucks end game. Now it looks like SE will give me a reason to pick it up again (and DRK!)


Raging Rush is in need of a major power boost, as it's marginally better than sturmwind and gets raped by rampage. Full Break is {too weak}.

It hits 4 stats for -12.5%, which is nice, except most jobs can cover those areas with a stronger/similar debuff that will just overwrite it. Now, if say it was -25% to all stats, effectively combining all the single breaks into one, then we'd have ourselves a real nasty single hit WS and it would justify the crap damage it does.


My other thought is SE did say a while back they'd be looking at TP gain on multi hit WS again. Maybe they'll un-nerf it but only for 2 handed multi hit WS? How freaking sweet would that be? 2 handers everywhere rejoice! (Granted SAM only has 2 multi-hit WS that aren't so awesome, but still!)

[Sevv]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

well, I just couldn't contain myself. The whole reason I dropped my WAR was because all I ever did was /NIN and axe/axe because great axe sucks end game. Now it looks like SE will give me a reason to pick it up again (and DRK!)

Stop!!!!! Great axe currently sucks in merits, who ever told you Great axe sucks in endgame is lying to you. If your ls says you Gaxe sucks gods/hnm/jailer/dynamis lord, please leave your ls they have no clue wtf is going on.

Raging Rush is in need of a major power boost, as it's marginally better than sturmwind and gets raped by rampage. Full Break is {too weak}.
It hits 4 stats for -12.5%, which is nice, except most jobs can cover those areas with a stronger/similar debuff that will just overwrite it. Now, if say it was -25% to all stats, effectively combining all the single breaks into one, then we'd have ourselves a real nasty single hit WS and it would justify the crap damage it does.

Well it is where it should be really, sturmwind 2 hits raging rush 3 hits rampage 5 (6 w/ dw). So in terms of hits they damage is about righ. Ya I knew it was too weak, thats why I spam steel cyclone.

My other thought is SE did say a while back they'd be looking at TP gain on multi hit WS again. Maybe they'll un-nerf it but only for 2 handed multi hit WS? How freaking sweet would that be? 2 handers everywhere rejoice! (Granted SAM only has 2 multi-hit WS that aren't so awesome, but still!)

If they were to un-nerf multi-hit ws for 2 handers only, the balance would be gone lol, people would be far more pissed then they are now, and I would so unretire drg until it got renerfed. Just becuase I can break the tp cap now =D.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

If a grip allows you to cast ustu or seigan third eye, the item is broken.

And nothing unless they make a new defesnive damage migration move, comes close, so yes I do know that.

You're clearly talking about something else here.

A -%recast grip, I would think, would be a godsend to the two-hander wonderpuss WAR who can't live without utsusemi. It would also be great for mage jobs, BLM especially.

I just hope SE has some -% Delay Grips that stack to Ranged Weapons, that or STR. +MAB ones would also be nice.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

My other thought is SE did say a while back they'd be looking at TP gain on multi hit WS again. Maybe they'll un-nerf it but only for 2 handed multi hit WS? How freaking sweet would that be? 2 handers everywhere rejoice! (Granted SAM only has 2 multi-hit WS that aren't so awesome, but still!)

Perhaps a partial unnerfing. Two handed weapons are supposed to get higher TP back per hit, so how about getting 2 TP back per extra hit on those multi-hit WSs?

[Sevv]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

You're clearly talking about something else here.
A -%recast grip, I would think, would be a godsend to the two-hander wonderpuss WAR who can't live without utsusemi.

If you are using a 2 hander on war and /nin not /sam... You are doing it wrong. -% recast grip pld/nin e-staff and even more broken, it is hard to not exploit anything they add into the game we are good at it now.

It would also be great for mage jobs, BLM especially.
I just hope SE has some -% Delay Grips that stack to Ranged Weapons, that or STR. +MAB ones would also be nice.

Mab would be nice.

Rng/sam w/ hasso, fire staff, a grip with ratt/racc and maybe str would be amazing, not to mention cor could use.

[nanatsu]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

Well it is where it should be really, sturmwind 2 hits raging rush 3 hits rampage 5 (6 w/ dw). So in terms of hits they damage is about righ. Ya I knew it was too weak, thats why I spam steel cyclone.

That's still not right. 3 hits from a massive, gigantic axe vs 5 hits from a small hand axe. Damage should be more even. Something is wrong here. By all rights getting hit once by a giant axe should cut you right in half. :p That's what they should do. Two-handed weapons should have a chance of instant death to a target >_>

[Sevv]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

That's still not right. 3 hits from a massive, gigantic axe vs 5 hits from a small hand axe. Damage should be more even. Something is wrong here. By all rights getting hit once by a giant axe should cut you right in half. :p That's what they should do. Two-handed weapons should have a chance of instant death to a target >_>

lets say we look at just the damage = hit


(use this due to not everyone has been to byakko)

267 damage if you just take damage x hits in ws



(no joy because like sky people may have trouble getting one)

So 5x50= 250 + 43 (if latent didn't effect ws) = 293

no modifiers no crits just damage x hits = #

[Lmnop]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

Too many things to quote... can't remember everything needed saying...

Sev. A grip could easily have something like "Enhances the effect of Seigan" and basically make it guaranteed to anticipate twice instead of only once. (while i'm thinking of it, that's the change I wanted to see instead of this, but I'm still ecstatic about the grips).

I just saw that Nanatsu made the comment I wanted to make...

Maneater: DMG 49 *6 = 294. Byakko's Axe: DMG 94 * 3 = 282. So Raging Rush should be 96% the strength of Rampage. But it's most certainly closer to 60%.

Still, I'd rather see an update that favors the 1-2 hit WSs more -- such as low level greatsword/scythe.

As we all know, what makes 2 handed weapons broken is that you can't get attack +48, STR+8 on any 2 handed weapon. It wouldn't really be out of line to see Kirin's Osode: the grip.

EDIT: Didn't see Sev's post.

First off: Berserker's is cheaper than either of those 1 handed axes, so it's not out of the question to use it's dmg 95 instead.
second: Oops! I see, looking at your figuring, that my numbers are somehow dual wielding maneaters. I guess my example is probably offhanding a jugger for a bit lower, or he's using your above-listed combo in which case we'll use your example of 299 (I'm figuring the latent as active).

That means the new numbers are 299 vs 285.

The GA combo is 95% as potent. Let's go ahead and use your cheap GA, just to unbalance things in your favor.
That Raging Rush should be 89% of that Rampage. But once again, it's closer to 60-70%.


Armando Note: These aren't serious numbers, but simply logic. And the logic doesn't really hold in these examples.

ONE MORE THING! Vyuru's actually rather brilliant for making that observation about 2 handers and IT mobs. I hope my future parties are more interesting...

[Mhurron]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

That's still not right. 3 hits from a massive, gigantic axe vs 5 hits from a small hand axe. Damage should be more even. Something is wrong here. By all rights getting hit once by a giant axe should cut you right in half. :p That's what they should do. Two-handed weapons should have a chance of instant death to a target >_>

Now if you're going to look at it in the real world, two single handed axes probably still win. They're easier to swing and direct allowing you to place your hits better and spend effort into the blow whereas with a colossal axe, a lot of your power is going to be expended just in raising and moving the weapon.

In a game it's just going to be straight out numbers, so its very easy to have a smaller damage weapon do more over a longer period of time then a high damage weapon over a shorter period.

[Sevv]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

Too many things to quote... can't remember everything needed saying...
Sev. A grip could easily have something like "Enhances the effect of Seigan" and basically make it guaranteed to anticipate twice instead of only once. (while i'm thinking of it, that's the change I wanted to see instead of this, but I'm still ecstatic about the grips).

I am all for this Lmnop, I was more talking if one just gave you the ability.

I just saw that Nanatsu made the comment I wanted to make...
Maneater: DMG 49 *6 = 294. Byakko's Axe: DMG 94 * 3 = 282. So Raging Rush should be 96% the strength of Rampage. But it's most certainly closer to 60%.
Still, I'd rather see an update that favors the 1-2 hit WSs more -- such as low level greatsword/scythe.

I use bhuj because byakko's can be harder to get for people. The 96% would be if all the modifier were identical, but which each modifier would be multiplied by those 3 hits more.

As we all know, what makes 2 handed weapons broken is that you can't get attack +48, STR+8 on any 2 handed weapon. It wouldn't really be out of line to see Kirin's Osode: the grip.

K Osode the grip make it be usable on drg!!!

EDIT: Didn't see Sev's post.
First off: Berserker's is cheaper than either of those 1 handed axes, so it's not out of the question to use it's dmg 95 instead.

Forgot about berserkers my bad.

second: Oops! I see, looking at your figuring, that my numbers are somehow dual wielding maneaters. I guess my example is probably offhanding a jugger for a bit lower, or he's using your above-listed combo in which case we'll use your example of 299 (I'm figuring the latent as active).

Chose non active because the the + attack mod would throw things off a bit.

That means the new numbers are 299 vs 285. Shit, let's lower to your 89 GA. 299 vs 267.
that Raging Rush should be 89% of that Rampage. But once again, it's closer to 60-70%.

Again the mods are not completely the same, but ya as I said before you won't see me complain if they boost raging rush.

[Lmnop]

Re: Battle system adjustment 8/14/07

Now if you're going to look at it in the real world, two single handed axes probably still win. They're easier to swing and direct allowing you to place your hits better and spend effort into the blow whereas with a colossal axe, a lot of your power is going to be expended just in raising and moving the weapon.

Except if you're swinging at a mad, super-regenerative sheep with unnatural toughness, the goal is to make each swing count for more. Not like you have to worry about 'parry and riposte.' Just cleave it far enough that it'll feel it.