Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Well, it's not about status to those of us who are saying "It's not about status." The issue that I personally have is that I feel that any one of these changes would have been more than enough. All three (again, to me) seems like too much.

Removing the EX on items. Cool. Not that farming them was hard, but hey, if you're in a rush, and you want to pay someone else for something you can farm, that's certainly your perogative. We do it for enough things in the game already, so what's a few more?

Removing exp loss from the missions. Cool. This was one of the largest impediments to getting people who have already done the missions to do them with you again. A pretty useful change IMO.

Lowering difficulty. Why? Who was asking for this? People who want the illusory "prestige" of having done something, but without any of the work?

It's like swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. Effective, but definitely overkill.

I believe you when you say it isn't about status for you, but there are others who'd also say it isn't about status and I'd have to say its BS. It certainly was about status enough for several people to make a big fuss about it like they have in this thread

I think Snoll Tzar is the only bizarre extreme, I've found nothing else in CoP I've encountered to be too difficult. I've lead balanced PTs through these missions on their first try.

[Hyrist]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Lowering difficulty. Why? Who was asking for this? People who want the illusory "prestige" of having done something, but without any of the work?

First off, if you're going to corner me into a 'side' about this, I support the nerf. CoP is old, a second new Expansion is comming. There's no reason not to dummy this down at this stage. Most people who really wanted to get the hardcore content out of this expansion have already.

On that note, I'm on the fence about lowering the actually "difficulty" of the mobs. It really depends on what they did to them. I hope that it is still a challenging fight, but has it in such a way that a varied party setup that is difficult enough to force a bit of improvising and teamwork out of a group, but not so overtly difficult to force people out of the "tank" "support" "damage" groups in favor of burn setups.

We'll really have to wait and see. But honestly? Now that I'm guiding a social LS group through CoP missions with limited experience myself, I'm rather greateful for the help. It saves grief on my end.

[Tekumel]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

On that note, I'm on the fence about lowering the actually "difficulty" of the mobs. It really depends on what they did to them. I hope that it is still a challenging fight, but has it in such a way that a varied party setup that is difficult enough to force a bit of improvising and teamwork out of a group, but not so overtly difficult to force people out of the "tank" "support" "damage" groups in favor of burn setups.

I'm with you on this point but...since when have people not favored burn setups?

Ever since I can remember, Promyvions have basically been WAR/NIN, RNG/NIN, SMN, WHM, BLM, or GTFO. Did I miss the memo?

[little ninja]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I could care less who has sea or not. I just think that its stupid to tone down a portion of a game thats already been toned down. An for what, to have a pretty little title after their name? If thats the case when is S.E gonna tone down Zilart missions and ranked missions since i know allot of people who aren't even rank 6 yet.

I am with Murph on this. The changing of exe items to now be sold in A.H means no more going to a promy with 6 til we had all 6 peeps with items to travel to twn to travel to another crag. No more lame excuses why not to have it.

The no exp loss in the battle grounds is nice considering thats pretty much where most of my group dies anyways. As for the reward of a couple exp isn't going to allure a ton of people into doing them. Since allot of the people i know have done them a ton of times, an just refuse to go back ever again. Im starting to be one of them

They aren't really that hard. Maps, exploits, party set ups, and strategy's are all over the net. If players can't take the time to research them. farm items or level a beneficial job. Why should we reward them?

[Raydeus]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I've said it many times before and I'll say it again, the true difficulty in CoP was finding a capable group of players to static with.

All the rest (specially after the xp loss change) was fairly easy to get done with standard setups.

This change will make it easier to get pickup parties and more help, which is good, but tunning down the difficulty doesn't make much sense to me.

But regardles of that, CoP is kinda old anyway so might as well get done with it. /shrug

[Malacite]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I beat COP literally a month or so before the EXP update....


That pissed me off, big time. I'm proud to say that I beat COP while it was still "Hard", and damn the pansies who complain.

Seriously, if we're not going to lose EXP in these boss battles, why not others? I actually kinda like that stipulation. The other stuff is a bit much, where as not losing EXP doesn't really take away from the difficulty of the fight. If anything it makes it more fun, since if you mess up, you can freely try again.

But weakening promyvion mobs AGAIN!? And I believe Pso'Xja mobs too... ugh. Well, actually the one change in Pso'Xja I wouldn't mind is moving the mobs away from the avatar gates... I was so paranoid of entering a CS only to find myself aggroed and killed right after I got out.

[Caspian]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I would guess Tenzen and Snoll will just have the time you have to beat them lengthened so as not to completely alienate certain jobs, don't get what else needs to be weakened on Promy's though. They're not super easy, but if you have competent people, they're not hard either.

[Aeolus]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I beat COP literally a month or so before the EXP update....
That pissed me off, big time. I'm proud to say that I beat COP while it was still "Hard", and damn the pansies who complain.

It wasnt "hard" before the exp update. It was "hard" before they changed the amount of monsters in promvions and the aggro range of monsters in most CoP areas. Still wasnt ever hard though. This is an update for people who dont want to put time/effort into a game which is based on exactly that. Its a kick in the nuts to people who play this game because of the time/effort needed to gain the rewards. If the people want an easy ride through this game then Id say go play another game and stop ruining it for the people who enjoy it as it was intended but thats not going to happen realistically as SE quite likes the money they also spend on it.

[711rocks]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Everyone should just be happy that now your whole ls can get sea easier, which means more love torques.

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Rank 6 + title of Shadow Banisher
complete AF armor set
title of Serket Breaker, Roc Star, Behemoth's Bane
access to Tu'Lia, Kirin Captivator
At one point, these and many other aspects of the game were once considered to be great marks of achievements. Today, they are marginalized and can be done far faster and easier than when first introduced.
Should these things remain exclusive to only the top tier of players or those that were here from the beginning? Does a new player joining today have to go through all aspects of the game with the same level of difficulty as those who started years ago? Is it unfair that they would have access to information and resources that were not available then?

There is a difference between a mark of achievement and exclusive.

When those were some of the most 'high level things' you could do, they were marks of achievement but ANYONE could do them if they tried (Except maybe for the HNM hunts). Sea access was never exclusive to just the best players, anyone could do it if they wanted to, it just took a little time and work. Those are the marks of an achievement.

CoP is being made easier and easier so less and less is needed to do it so any idiot can. Anyone who thought that getting Sea made them part of some special club is stupid, but before anyone who got Sea could feel like they personally accomplished something. That is being slowly taken away. At this rate CoP will be no harder then getting a chocolate bar. No effort needed, no planning, no accomplishment.

[Karinya]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Should these things remain exclusive to only the top tier of players or those that were here from the beginning? Does a new player joining today have to go through all aspects of the game with the same level of difficulty as those who started years ago? Is it unfair that they would have access to information and resources that were not available then?

I'm kind of divided on this. They shouldn't have to suffer just because old players suffered, but on the other hand, some old fights were FUN (with competent players). If you've never fought Shadow Lord or an AF3 NM with nobody above 60 or done Genkai 2 with an alliance of 55s you really don't know what you're missing. Allowing them to be done as 75 blowouts screws newer players out of having those experiences. Yes, they can say they don't want high level help; but good luck finding 5 (or 17, depending on the content) other players of the right level who also want to do it the hard way.

Personally, I'm hopeful that it will at least motivate my friends who haven't completed CoP to resume the missions. Stupid/crappy players aren't going to get to Sea any faster, much like the uproar when the exp needed to level up were adjusted post lv50.

I would like to point out again (for people who missed it the last time) that out of all the battlefields being adjusted, only Snoll Tzar was even borderline hard to begin with (and we don't know how big the change to him will be). Diabolos and Omega & Ultima remain untouched; I think the only way the 3 mithra fight has ever been adjusted is to change their behavior after a wipe (it's now more reasonably possible to recover and finish off the rest of them if you killed some before wiping). Most of the changes are more in the area of reducing some of the time-wasting drudgery surrounding the missions, which is just fine with me. Farming animas isn't really part of the challenge of PMs; it's just part of the tedium.


Frankly, a lot of the old timesinks were just there to keep people from running out of things to do before SE could design more content to keep them busy. Now that we have half a dozen different kinds of endgame content in addition to six mission storylines and 18 jobs to level, with another expansion on the way, that just isn't necessary anymore.

[Telera]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I still haven't done CoP. If it weren't for Diabolos, I doubt I ever would. I used to enjoy how 'hard' it was to do things in this game (read: ridiculous time sinks that make things seem hard when the fights themselves are not if you just put some effort into it.)

But I've come to a point in my life where I want my games to be hobbies and my actual job that I have to report to in an hour to be my job. As I've said to others in other threads (namely the LotR one) I respect those of you who want to sink 5+ hours a day into this game. But for me, that's a bit excessive. It wouldn't be so bad if you could spread those same 5 hours some people put in on each day over a day and get the same results, but you can't. You have to set aside huge chunks of a day for levelling especially 60-ish and beyond. (Depends on party, location exp/hr, but point stands.) You can't get the same results partying 5 hours over 2-3 days as you could in one. You can't even get a group going for a promy and be done in an hour or two, especially if your server is feeling particularly persnickety. I've seen the same guy shouting four hours later when I'd be coming and going from Jeuno.

However.

FFXI is a game based around the principles of time sinks. As many people have said, and from what I've heard from friends in game, CoP isn't that bad if you know what you're doing and can follow direction. The difficulty in it is getting people willing to participate. That's where the item changes and exp loss changes come in. I think those were a good addition, one that might encourage those that are already through it to be willing to help those not. Whether or not this is really changing the XI we all play and love, we'll have to see.

Scaling difficulty down? Well that's vague enough in the announcement. It could be a minor change, something done more to produce hype and get more people confident enough to try. We won't know until its done and someone walks in with previous experience to compare it to, but I can't help but feel that some of us are overreacting.

And some of us are just hung up on the prestige of what they achieved in a bunch of pixels. This isn't my first MMO. I've been at the tops of others when things changed massively. But you know what? I've never cried and slit wrists about it. A game is a game. If it's changed for those later on, so what? I'm past it, I'm through with it, I'm done. I don't dwell on my 'achievements' in a damned game. If you did it the 'old way' good for you. Want a cookie?

'But it's not as much of a challenge nooooow *whine*.'

..are you doing it now? No. Ok, then be happy with what you did when you went through it.

And as 711Rocks said, try to find the positive in it. I doubt the sucky players are going to get through CoP regardless of changes. It just means those willing might have the impetus to actually try. Unless the mobs are suddenly dumbed down to level 10, I'm failing to see the real problem here. A percentage change to HP, maybe time in some, or other minor details? Just that, minor.

MMO's are in a state of constant change. And it is a business. Some of us just need to get used to that. And really, the company doesn't care if you don't like it. Look at SoE. Look at how many people ditched Galaxies and yet nothing was changed. I rest my case.

[Raydeus]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

'But it's not as much of a challenge nooooow *whine*.'

..are you doing it now? No. Ok, then be happy with what you did when you went through it.

You are mean, it's true, but you are mean. *sob*

[Telera]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

You are mean, it's true, but you are mean. *sob*

That coming from a post with a beady-eyed little puppy as an avatar makes me sad. XD

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Difficult, dangerous things are fun and exciting. I want to experience overcoming an impossible task with my friends.

You can still experience this, even after some of the missions get toned down. Prommies seem to easy with 6 people? Try it with 5.

ZMs are too easy with level 75 jobs? Try tackling them when you're 60 or 65.

Can't find enough other players who share your interest doing it the hard way? Well, sorry, that's not SE's job.