Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

[Vonlock]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I don't care what anyone says...

I actually like this update... especially for the MANY players like myself who only get to play for about 2 hours MAX .... for maybe 4 or 5 days out of the week.

Yall have to remember.. not all of the players (especially the new ones) can play hours on end trying to go through the CoP missions.

Even though YOU (who finished it) may not like it... 1000's of future players and partime players will love it.

So Thank you SE for showing that you are looking out for those gamers that have a real life too.

I don't know about you guys.. but I don't want to come home from working a long day at work then playing a game where I have to WORK even harder. I want to enjoy my game.

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

(especially the new ones)

What makes you think new players especially have no playtime?

[Legal Fish]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I don't know about you guys.. but I don't want to come home from working a long day at work then playing a game where I have to WORK even harder. I want to enjoy my game.

Why? Apparently real life is so much better that you have to brag about it online.

[Vonlock]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Why? Apparently real life is so much better that you have to brag about it online.

How did I brag??? Just curious...

[Mhurron]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I don't know about you guys.. but I don't want to come home from working a long day at work then playing a game where I have to WORK even harder. I want to enjoy my game.

Ok look, everyone likes to do different things. Some people like things that are hard or at least a challenge. If you don't don't play a game that is like that, complain so much that the game is changed to placate you at the expense of those that wanted it the way it was.

I enjoy doing something hard. And you're not the only one with a job around here.

[Vonlock]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Ok look, everyone likes to do different things. Some people like things that are hard or at least a challenge. If you don't don't play a game that is like that, complain so much that the game is changed to placate you at the expense of those that wanted it the way it was.

I enjoy doing something hard. And you're not the only one with a job around here.

OMG you guys are super sensitive... who said no one else had a job.

stop reading too hard into everything.. and let people state their opinions... This is a forum. GET OVER IT.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

It sounds to me like a lot of posters don't like any change to make this game more inclusive. Being level 75 was like being a part of some exclusive club. Then ToAU came out, TP burns became the norm, and end game became a more inclusive area of the game. And players complain about exp'ing having been made too easy.

Sky access used to be an exclusive club. But now that the level cap is 75, a lot of old timers are complaining saying it's too easy to get Sky.

Sea access used to be very difficult. And now players who already have Sea access are complaining because their status of being part of an exclusive group is being threatened.

[Legal Fish]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

Vonlock, some people actually want a game where you have to put a lot of effort into something to get something.

Seeing how this is the way things are right now, getting SE to change that would be like stealing away the game from these players.

And FFXI is the last of dying breed. If you want to get something done in 1 or 2 hours, there's always WoW and it's legion of clones. Not to say you can't get anything done in FFXI in that time.

If FFXI becomes WoW, not that it will exactly, there will be no game to go to to replicate that experience. You could always quit FFXI and play WoW or something if you can't play enough.



And for the record, I don't care if people get CoP done more now. That's never been my concern. I'm afraid all SE is going to do now is give us baby-missions. I'm looking at you ToAU.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

First off, sky is NOT the same as doing your CoP. That's a piss poor comparison.

Sky is about (lots of free) time and out claiming RMT/botting LSs. I dont know how you compare this to doing airship or doing promys.
Doing your COP missions is about getting people that work well together. You're not competing with anyone when you do your missions, it's just you and the game.

So saying that they made Sky easier is irrelevant.

No one said sky was the "same" as CoP. I don't know where you got that nonsense.

I said they made sky easier, and you have a problem with things being easier. So overlooking that they made sky easier and a little walk or boat trip avoidable - hell - they have you a warp to sky when the Zi'tah outpost was five paces away.

Everyone complained about Ulli and travelling and SE fixes Ulli and travelling and thats OK. And, laughably, no one complained when SE gave a tutorial on POL about how to beat AV.

But we don't even know how they're changing some of these CoPs and in a matter of hours massive complaints take place - just wait.

I don't see why Promy bosses would need a change, but I certainly think the changes to CoP fight items are sound. I think Snoll Tzar fight will be tweaked, but that's it. Making Animas R/E was creating more artificial difficulty on top of the level caps (which were artificial enough), so making them stackable, AHable is definately a step forward - forced farming/bazaaring was a stupid idea.

For some, getting HNM/sky/sea/dynamis is a long, tedious, unending chore thanks to the fact SE left the loot system in the hands of players rather than institute a proper guild system. Those people had to fight through linkshells, point systems, look priority politics, osode sellers and whatnot to complete various sets and obtain the weapons they want.

Anyway, I don't see those with full god gear up in arms now that Ulli is easier to get to, which makes the whole of sky more reasonable. Even without RMT, had the change never happened, sky would be no different than it is now.

You have to realize the game is growing older and as more content is added, that's more content for the newer players to sift through. Rank Missions, RoZ, CoP, ToA and Assault are all the current missions we have access to. Its a lot of stuff and I'm sure that if you started right now it would take a year or two to get through it all and level your jobs, subjobs and so on.

Just imagine CoP being left as it is two expansions from now. Imagine starting over four or five expansions behind everyone else and CoP sitting there right in the middle of it. You want the best for your Berzerker and so you'll need CoPs done. Without CoPs, you'd probably be left out of a lot.

There will still be challenging missions and CoPs time-consumption difficulty was part of a long list of things SE is listening to and addressing. If people keep complaining about the state of ToA mob difficulty, I'm sure they'll eventually change it be a little harder.

And yes, if you've ever bent over backwards to schedule CoP missions around the needs of other members, only to get screwed over time and again, you would get a little jaded. Not every gets the "FFXI in a Plastic Bubble" experience. Not all servers are created equal, economies are not equal. Your milage may vary.

I still remember back when people would flat-out ditch their social linkshells once said linkshells got them sky access. Sky very much used to be about the prestige that sea is now and I'm sure these changes are partially being made to give prestige to the new endgame zone.

I actually remember one of the last sky runs I did, which took place after yet another CoP static fell apart. One of our most loyal upstanding members dropped us the very moment he got ZM13 done. This was a guy I had stood up for and defended on numerous occasions. I laughed and, for the first time, immediately got over it and let the twit go.

Stuff like that honestly doesn't bother me anymore, I just find it old and childish. Anything that prevents people from having to deal with that childish behavior is a good thing in my book. If it means making things *somewhat* easier, so be it.

As it stands, we don't know how "easy" it will be, so calm down. As it stands I'd bet my hat the same people complaining here would be down on their hands and knees thanking SE if they made Kings poppable.

[Vonlock]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

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[Omni]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I got it from you.

People were on thier hands and knees thanking SE in March for Ulli becoming a pop NM, thus, making sky easier.

Talk all you want about the RMT problem, had it not been RMT, many "legit" linkshells would have botted claim, MPK/Steal claim on Ulli and we all know that. Yet, those legit linkshells would talk about challenge, skill and how they earned their osodes and whatnot.

Sky is now easier now and who is complaining?

Your first comparison to making COP easier was to making SKY easier. The reasons for each are completely different. You not getting a claim on a nm that is meant to have competition is different than you failing at a cop mission.

You fail at cop, you can go right back at it. You miss a claim, and you've just wasted 6 hours camping.

Two very different things. Making ulli from being a lotto pop at X hrs was a great move.

Again, I still find it ironic that you're saying people are over-reacting and such.

I'm in sea quite a lot and I dont see the 'up to gil in noobs that has passed around their accounts' nor do I see the hordes of people doing dynamis this why either. If anyone is exaggerating about anything it's you.

[Karinya]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I said they made sky easier, and you have a problem with things being easier. So overlooking that they made sky easier and a little walk or boat trip avoidable - hell - they have you a warp to sky when the Zi'tah outpost was five paces away.

True, but running through Ro'Maeve every single time was a pointless, obnoxious pain in the ass. Unless you get your income from silent oil :D

The new warp doesn't make sky easier to get to - it makes it *faster* to get to. You still have to go through the same requirements to get there (in fact, the new warps have much higher requirements than outposts or sky access itself).

Everyone complained about Ulli and travelling and SE fixes Ulli and travelling and thats OK. And, laughably, no one complained when SE gave a tutorial on POL about how to beat AV.

Well, honestly, if they're going to have a fight like that there should have been some NPC or mysterious inscription somewhere that gives you a hint what the trick is. Otherwise it's just blind guessing, which is lame.

It's not like once you know the trick you can solo him at level 1, anyway. IIRC AV drops are still rarer than completed relic weapons, even after the "secret" isn't a secret.

Ulli was fine when RoZ first came out, but eventually when you have enough people trying to get him, it just didn't work anymore - players got in each others' way too much. The new way is scalable and it works. I don't see how anyone other than an autumnstone seller could object.

But we don't even know how they're changing some of these CoPs and in a matter of hours massive complaints take place - just wait.
I don't see why Promy bosses would need a change, but I certainly think the changes to CoP fight items are sound. I think Snoll Tzar fight will be tweaked, but that's it. Making Animas R/E was creating more artificial difficulty on top of the level caps (which were artificial enough), so making them stackable, AHable is definately a step forward - forced farming/bazaaring was a stupid idea.

Making it so that every member of the party doesn't have to farm his own items will make it much easier to get people to help, too - if they only have to help with the mission, and not 5 hours of farming *and* the mission, they'll be a lot more likely to have enough time (that they're willing to spend helping).

I think the level caps were (and are) good, though. They keep people from blowing through the content like they blow through RoZ and ToAU. I don't see where you think they're going to be stackable though - I think animas will probably remain rare, but just stop being ex. If anything becomes non-rare it will probably be mistmelt or *maybe* the salt for snoll tzar; allowing an unlimited amount of something as powerful as animas really would break those fights.

For all we know the difficulty changes are just 5% less HP or something like that. It could be a change made for the psychological impact, to convince players who had written off PMs to give them another try, and not necessarily make them walkovers. 5% less HP would occasionally give you a win you would otherwise have lost, but they won't let someone win with no gear or plan or just totally trash the fight like 75s in ZM4-6. At most it would reduce the need to bring *only* the fastest DD jobs you can find.

In any case, as long as 6-4 and Diabolos aren't touched, I don't think you can say that CoPs as a whole are too easy. (And you can still lose exp by dying outside battlefields, which includes most of chapter 8 for example.) They'll probably be slightly less tedious.

Anyone opposed to 100% virtue drop rates? It isn't any harder to kill a T1 jailer five times than to kill him once, but it's a heck of a lot more time consuming. That's the kind of change most of this is.

As it stands, we don't know how "easy" it will be, so calm down. As it stands I'd bet my hat the same people complaining here would be down on their hands and knees thanking SE if they made Kings poppable.

Well, duh. That should have been done ages ago. But that doesn't affect the difficulty of the fight at all (which is exactly *why* it should have been done ages ago).

Of the fights that are being adjusted, only Snoll Tzar regularly gives a prepared party any trouble; I don't know if they'll change him much, but I doubt it'll be drastic. Nobody who doesn't have some idea what they're doing is going to get past Ouryu, Diabolos or Omega & Ultima.

[Omniblast]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I feel that the only difficulty of going through CoP's is the level Cap. Honesly though, if there was no level cap, like all the ZM's and ToAU missions are, it would be totally easy.

CoP was really designed to allow a group of players to grow together, and form the bonds of friendship for a adventuring party. Though most established players have already formed such bonds, which make such an experience almost unnecessary. IMHO. I havn't been to any of the more difficult fights, but it seems like I would need to take a day off work to organize a party to do this, and even still beyond that, I would need to schedule it with everyone. I just don't have the time to do that. I guess after 4 years of playing, some people do get burned out. I guess I might fall into that category, but atleast I'm no quitter.

Omni, what CoP are you in, and can you help a fellow taru out?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

I got it from you.

Your first comparison to making COP easier was to making SKY easier. The reasons for each are completely different. You not getting a claim on a nm that is meant to have competition is different than you failing at a cop mission.

You fail at cop, you can go right back at it. You miss a claim, and you've just wasted 6 hours camping.

Two very different things. Making ulli from being a lotto pop at X hrs was a great move

Sky being an area and CoPs being missions aren't the point here, so I fail to see why you're trying to make the distinction. You objected to the missions being made easier. I pointed out something else that was made easier and, yet, thats OK?

You want sea to feel exclusive, yet its fine that kitty pants and osodes are now much easier to get and more common than ever? Its going to be that way for Homam sets and Faith Torques eventually.

Thief's Knife is now worthless and people now tell the owners that it was an overpriced luxury item and to quit whining. Well, exclusivity is a luxury, too. There are more exansions in the future, CoP can't be the central endgame experience forever, gotta make room for ToA endgame and Wings of the Goddess, man.

Again, I still find it ironic that you're saying people are over-reacting and such.

I'm in sea quite a lot and I dont see the 'up to gil in noobs that has passed around their accounts' nor do I see the hordes of people doing dynamis this why either. If anyone is exaggerating about anything it's you.

Well you're being defensive enough to make personal attacks, so this must really be important to you.

I speak only from experience on Titan, it might not be chronically commonplace, but its common enough to be disgusted when you notice it. A lot of people want to believe the players who have helped them be successful in endgame are nice, honest people, I'm not that naive.

[Murphie]

Re: Chains of Promathia Battlefield Adjustments (05/18/2007)

heh. Trying to get players that quit/lost their character back I guess.
They won't get me.

Could you try and refrain from dripping your cynicism all over the thread every time SE makes an announcement? I think we all get it by now.