OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

[Mhurron]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

I'm not sure where all this philosophical nonsense is coming from.

People like to rationalize their actions, especially when they know that what they have done is wrong. Their is no better rationalization then 'a higher power.'

[Sevv]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

ya im so done responding to him to everyone sorry about dragging it on ill go back to the drg corner now /sulk

[aozora]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

IIf your willing to shell out the money irl to every ps2 and 360 player around ill drop a memo to the s-e reps

Haha! ::nods:: I like your thinking.

[aozora]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

People like to rationalize their actions, especially when they know that what they have done is wrong. Their is no better rationalization then 'a higher power.'

Eh, not especially - in fact, I'd almost say it's the opposite. "Higher powers" often tend to fly in the face of individual freedom and individual responsibility.

[aozora]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

ya im so done responding to him to everyone sorry about dragging it on ill go back to the drg corner now /sulk

Again, I apologize if I have been rude.

I thank you guys for your time and insights.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

Impressive analysis, aozora.

One thing to note, though, human laws/rules have context and history--they are not born in theoretical vacuum.

FFXI was created for PS2 first, but S-E did not want its MMORPG's future to be limited by the lifespan of PS2. So, they later release PC version as well.

Now, PC is a much more flexible platform, and more can be offered. From lessons of their FFVII on PC, they knew they would be called to task if they simply ported PS2 graphics to PC, so they gave the PC version higher resolution texture maps and improved special effects.

In the mean while, they had to assure their existing player base that PC version does not give players undue advantage--at least not in actual play. They did not want to be seen as forcing players who already paid for the PS2 version to buy a copy of PC FFXI and possibly have to upgrade their computer to run it.

There were real world concerns which framed the rules that S-E seem to follow: "FFXI can look cosmetically different on different platforms, but should play the same. No platform should have play advantage over another."

Which is why xBox360 and PC version does have better graphic than PS2, and why xBox360 version support wide screen format. Yet, the UI is kept fairly consistent across all three versions.

Of course, there are certainly some arbitrary aspects to the rules, like selecting what info to show on UI, but even those decisions were informed by the constraints like PS2's screen resolution.

Given the context and the history, I think those are reasonable decisions in attempts to keep each major constituency of FFXI player base happy.

[neokaril]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

I'm assuming that this will allow me to take screenshots now (yes I know clipper will but I would rather not use 3rd party software). Im thinking the print screen function will work while windowed.?

[Aksannyi]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

I'm assuming that this will allow me to take screenshots now (yes I know clipper will but I would rather not use 3rd party software). Im thinking the print screen function will work while windowed.?

Actually, it still does, but the screenshot you take won't stay on the clipboard for very long. Basically, if you want to take a screenshot that way you need to log out almost right away so you can save it, then log back in. Kind of a pain in the ass, but I've gotten chat logs saved that way.

[Sevv]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

i dont know if they will allow you to take screenshots of the in game text now. I doubt they would change that over, they didnt want text shots for a reason i think =P. Would be nice if they did it for ps 2 >.> that way i would have to use the video camera

[neokaril]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

Actually, it still does, but the screenshot you take won't stay on the clipboard for very long. Basically, if you want to take a screenshot that way you need to log out almost right away so you can save it, then log back in. Kind of a pain in the ass, but I've gotten chat logs saved that way.

Right, but logging while fighting a NM isn't a good game plan, I'm thinking that the windowed ver will allow me to save the captured screen while still keeping me in the game; thereby not loosing the NM but still allowing me to print screen for posterity?

[Aksannyi]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

Well if you window out of it just open up Paint and Ctrl + V (Copy) the image and save it real quick.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

I'm assuming that this will allow me to take screenshots now (yes I know clipper will but I would rather not use 3rd party software). Im thinking the print screen function will work while windowed.?

It depends on how S-E implements several things.

An Windows application (that includes FFXI, even without "windowed mode") intercepts all key press events, and process them as commands. Usually, the key presses which do not correspond to commands are either considered errors (normally the application will beep at the user or ignore it), or passed on to the operating system.

Alt + Print Screen is usually one of those key events passed on to the operating system under most applications, but FFXI catches and process Alt for keyboard commands and macro pallet, and it catches and processes Print Screen for its odd, resolution resizing screen-repaint-to-file operation.

Unless they change that, Windows OS will never get to process the Alt + Print Screen key event, so my guess is that you won't be able to take a screen capture to the clipboard, and Ctrl + V to Paint.exe even after S-E implements the windowed mode.

Another reason for guessing it won't happen is that S-E wants to affix a copyright notice to every screen capture; while the developers can repaint with that copyright to the current resolution, then toss it to the system clipboard, that's extra work--as in extra code and extra QA testing. Unlikely to be on top of their priority list, IMO.

I'm going to bet 100 gil the windowed mode won't allow users to capture screen to the system clipboard. At least, not in the near future, and not the full resolution screen shot with chat log displayed like I wanted.

p.s. To fellow geeks: Yes, I know Alt + Print Screen is not a single event; but, if I get any more technical, the people understand what I write will dwindle to single digits.

[Ziero]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

Oh, you don't like theory, I see that. Let's be pragmatic. The purchaser holds the power in a vendor relationship if he has half a brain.
If you were to purchase for a technology for your company, and they tell you "Have the vendor to throw this extra thing in and we will award them the contract," would that be rude?
Because, I'll tell you, we do that.
Or to re-negotiate an existing contract? Is it rude to go "Look, we have a contract with you, but xyz company down the street offers a similar product with value added features, what can you do to match them?"
Because that we do that, too.
In this case, there is complete vendor lock, the purchaser has ... well, nothing... and you agree with this model? Moreover, you support it. I mean, you almost said we should thank SE for letting people pay to play them!
And you wonder why I'm curious? Brand loyalty like this is extremely hard to come by...

Pardon me for being rude, but what in the hell are you on?

If the theoretcial contract you refer to says you have to stay with XX vendor for YY time, and you break that rule you will get your ass sued off. That's part of the contract, the *rules* you and the other party AGREE too. If you break those rules you will have to pay the price. Now SE doesn't have anything saying you can't leave whenever you want nor do they say you must exclusively play FFXI but they do have other rules you AGREE to follow and breaking those rules will result in you being punished. That's the whole point of the contract that you AGREE to when you A) Purchase the game B) Install the game C) Register the game and D) Start up the game. There is no theory involved in this situation, it's written down and cold hard fact. They say 'these are the rules' you then say, when you do any of the above mentioned tasks 'I agree to these rules' and thus you are *allowed* to play.

SE does not owe us crap, it is a privalege we can play THEIR game. We as 'purchasers' have *ZERO* rights as to what SE does or does not do with their game. You seem to not grasp that concept. At any time, for any reason, SE can completely erase EVERYTHING we have all 'worked' so hard to obtain, and there is no legal recourse in any way shape or form you can take against them. The only thing you can do to show your dislike/distrust/dis-whateverthehellyou'recomplainingabout towards SE is to stop paying and stop playing. That is your choice in this matter and the only one you really have other then asking nicely for things to be changed. SE does have to 'match' any of their 'competitors', they're doing things how they want to and people who like what they do will stay and those who don't will leave.

Being rebellious is all well and good, when there's actually a *reason* to be so. Not having a customizable UI, not a reason at all.


Also, in regards to Screenshots and such. I believe SE's stance on FRAPs, and 3rd party image and motion capture program, was that it was perfectly acceptable to use in regards to FFXI. In fact I believe they even had a fan film contets of sorts at the Fan Festival featuring films made via FRAPs and software similar to it. The program has no effect on the game itself what-so-ever and does nothing more then record what is on your screen at the time. So if worst comes to worst I'm sure many people can resort to using that program for all their Screen shot and capture needs.

[aozora]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

Oh, this is interesting. It looks like the concept of virtual property itself has been granted a US patent...

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,119,229

Virtual property system

Abstract

A digital object ownership system is disclosed. The system includes a plurality of user terminals, where each terminal is accessible by at least one individual user. The system also includes at least one central computer system that is capable of communicating with each of the user terminals. A plurality of digital objects are provided, where each of the digital objects has a unique object identification code. Each of the digital objects are assigned to an owner. The digital objects are persistent, such that each of the digital objects is accessible by a particular user both when the user's terminal is in communication with the central computer system and also when the user's terminal is not in communication with the central computer system. The digital objects have utility in connection with communication over a network in that the object requires both the presence of the object identification code and proof of ownership.

Inventors: Martinez; Ronald (Mill Valley, CA), Schneier; Bruce (Minneapolis, MN), Guerin; Greg (Tempe, AZ)
Assignee: The Brodia Group (San Francisco, CA)
Appl. No.: 08/834,027
Filed: April 11, 1997

So, uh, what does it mean when virtual property ownership is someone else's intellectual property?

[aozora]

Re: OFFICIAL FFXI Windowed Mode Support Confirmed!

You seem to not grasp that concept. At any time, for any reason, SE can completely erase EVERYTHING we have all 'worked' so hard to obtain, and there is no legal recourse in any way shape or form you can take against them.

There is a difference between not grasping a concept and questioning it.

Correct, there is currently no legal recourse in the US or Japan, AFAIK.

However, a gentleman in China several years did sue for loss of virtual property in a game, and won.

"The provider owns it all" idea is still being debated.

Edit:

If the theoretcial contract you refer to says you have to stay with XX vendor for YY time, and you break that rule you will get your ass sued off.

Uuuuh, not exactly... the difference is that the purchaser controls the contract terms. I go to a vendor and say "I want this," they return a SOW, we agree to it, and we pay them for it. And there is lots of wiggle room...

What you are referring to is a unequal vendor/client relationship, like exists in game, where the vendor dictates the contract terms. It's bass ackwards.