Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

[eticket109]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

As for other classes that need a kick, how about something for the poor DRGs, too!

We've had some major improvements in the last few updates. While there are some job changes that I would like to see, there's nothing that we really need.

[Malacite]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

What MNK needs is a fix to Counter and Guard.

The job is near-perfect as it is, but still lacks that natural defense that a Martial Arts master should have. If MNK could reliably counter or at least guard physical attacks (WS included) then they wouldn't have to jump on the /NIN bandwagon. Oh, and where are the nunchacku SE?


As for DRG, the only thing I'd like to see SE do is some more tweaking to Jumps and Polearm WS. Traditionally, DRG has always been all about the jumps, and while I love the wvyern, it's because of that pet that a one God-Like melee class in previous titles has been toned down for balance sake. I say make Jump a 1 minute recast instead of 1.5, and make jump do double damage when using a spear/lance like it's supposed to.

EDIT: Forgot about the WS. Maybe they could give Penta Thrust a critical hit ability like they did with Evisceration? Then DRG could really put up some nasty numbers on Colibri and in the mire.

[Thoris]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

I say SE wants smn's to leave there avatars out, well then make them do more dmg. We are A DD class not a Whm2 class

[Raydeus]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

Oh, and where are the nunchacku SE?

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooo *breathing* oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!


I agree MNK should have a much better defense though, maybe not a counter proc. increase, but Guard should kick in at least as often as Shield does.

Or does it?

However the same way only PLD has native Shield Mastery MNK should be the only one with native Guard Mastery (sorry PUPs ).

[Legal Fish]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

Chocobo Breeding is worthwhile in that you get personal transportation in most zones when you need it, but chocobo racing is pure fluffy filler content whether you're willing to admit it or not. The job adjustments are vastly more important, right up there with new missions, zones and endgame content. And I don't consider the latter that important at this point in the expansion.

There is no such thing as "important" and "filler" content. You pay 13+ dollars a month to waste time playing a videogame facing a monitor or TV screen. Whatever the hell you are wasting your time with is your game. If you don't like that portion of the game, don't play it. If there is too much of the game you don't want to play then quit the game. If SE wants to make money, they'll see people don't want that type of stuff and quit in masses, they'll change it. That is how it works. Don't say retarded terms like "filler".

I hope they keep true to the tactical aspects of Chocobo Racing.

[Taskmage]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

There is no such thing as "important" and "filler" content. You pay 13+ dollars a month to waste time playing a videogame facing a monitor or TV screen. Whatever the hell you are wasting your time with is your game. If you don't like that portion of the game, don't play it. If there is too much of the game you don't want to play then quit the game. If SE wants to make money, they'll see people don't want that type of stuff and quit in masses, they'll change it. That is how it works. Don't say retarded terms like "filler".
I hope they keep true to the tactical aspects of Chocobo Racing.

I agree with the meat of what you're saying here, but please keep the language down and attempt an illusion of respect for your fellow forum members.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

[ Red Mage ] - Enfeebling experts.
Adjustments Planned: Will continue to find ways to put red mages in positions where they are required to be ready for anything.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they plan to do, although it sounds like they have no idea what they are gonna do for my favorite job and are just stalling, which says to me that we won't see anything in this update or the next.

I don't think a higher Besieged mob level cap is such a great thing, Ragnarok has a hard enough time holding Al Zahbi's walls when the mobs blow through on levels 5 and 6, I shudder at the idea that they think it needs to be more difficult. What ought to be addressed it the number of bodies allowed during Besieged.

Although, the levels 1-4 Besieged are kind of a joke, so a raise to the level caps in those would be understandable.

And Chocobo racing is hardly an eye turner to me. Not when Chocobo breeding is already a strange prospect(and more than a little time consuming). It'd be nice if I didn't have to endure a 30 second cutscene every time I went to feed my Chocobo, or endure a soliloquy when I've been away for a while and get an update on my bird's status.

For that matter, why is everything except feeding automated? That's just a pain.

When it comes right down to it, melee jobs are enjoying a relative golden age with the advent of ToAU, and MNK looks to be at the vanguard. Granted, they could use some defensive capabilities(martial arts masters should be able to guard, parry, and counter, and do these things well, one might expect), but other than that, they are more complete than most other melee jobs currently. Others get talents, but really all they do is just hit stuff, which is what it comes down to. You rarely see them use(or need to use) said talents in exp/merit situations, which make up 95% of all combat in the game.

S-E already pointed out that's it'd be difficult to introduce new weapons to the game(I believe in response to a question asked at the Fan event held in California a while back), so nunchaku are likely a long shot. But I'd love to see those too, among other things.

And BLM is due for an equalizer, oh yes, oh yes. As 'kitten said,

And while the AM2 merits are nice, BLMs really haven't gotten the EXP fix they're due. The perception that the class slows EXP down is starting to trickle down below 50 where it shouldn't be happening. Its not been an uncommon sight for me to see a BLM soloing in the same areas I do as BST. I don't think they're soloing because they want to, but because they can't get EXP if they don't.

They're overdue some love. More Pudding and Undead camps, or areas with expanded level range would be ideal. My only fear is seeing a split among the community, though, a division marked by "Manaburn only" or "TP burn only" types of mindsets.

Oh, and SMN. Poor, poor SMN. They make pretty good healers, and I don't think S-E intends on changing that any time soon. If they really wanted to give players incentive to leave avatars out, they have one of two options:

1.Remove Avatar perpetuation cost, or

2.Remove Blood Pact costs.

It's the two of these things together(and the variation within; varied BP costs, up and down Perpetuation costs), that tear through a SMN's mana, as formidable as it is, and simply kills any worth for perpetuating an Avatar. The splitting of damage and support pact timers was all well and good, but really just double the opportunity to eat a SMN's mana, which seems to be the issue at hand. At least the issue for SMNs I talk to, anyways.

[Karinya]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

Continually buffing players and buffing players and buffing players will make the game too easy. IMO, they've gone WAY too far in that direction already, overreacting to a few whiners about the "difficulty" of CoP (when in truth, most of it isn't really difficult, just time-consuming).

BLMs can make just as good exp now as they could before TAU - in manaburns or in balanced parties. Better, even - in addition to all the old camps still being there (and less crowded), there are new camps that have a bigger supply of easier monsters and allow Sanction. But nobody is willing to settle for that amount of exp now because of the out-of-control exp rates of the TP burns. Some BLMs are leveling FOTM jobs to merit with, reducing the number available to form a manaburn; and the crucial MP-restoring jobs are rare and needed for all party setups, it's no surprise if they generally prefer the ones that give twice as much XP/hr.

Nothing has changed about BLMs or the monsters they kill (except for the new gear, camps and Sanction that actually make them *better*). They've merely been left behind by other jobs being overbuffed out of all balance.


SE needs to nerf those back down to be in line with other party setups. Some people will whine. OK, a lot of people will whine. But SE can do it and people will get used to it. And they need to do it - the pressure of TP burns is tearing the high level game apart at the seams and trickling down to lower levels too. Jobs that aren't favored in TP burns are hard to find at *any* level now - fewer people want to level them up only to be rejected at 70+, and who can blame them? SE can't control player behavior, but when they make a few jobs and party setups so grossly favored over all others, they'd have to be fools not to expect the players to follow.

Finally, why this needs to be a nerf of overpowered jobs/camps/WS/etc. instead of raising the power level of players yet again: if players keep getting more and more powerful and the game keeps getting easier and easier we might as well all go play WoW. Or tic-tac-toe. I don't want to see that happen. FFXI has long been a game that was challenging, and demanded skill and teamwork to make a really successful party. It isn't that game anymore. I want my balanced, challenging game back, and only SE can bring it back.

If they don't, then this game will die. The loyalty of the FFXI playerbase is not just about the FF name - it's about the gameplay that is different from other MMOs. Nobody else has a skillchain system; most other MMOs' players couldn't use one if it did exist. (If you think I'm exaggerating, try WoW sometime. Most players have trouble with the concept of "try not to rip hate off the tank", let alone "we should probably have only one puller".) A game that demands skill attracts and retains skilled players who value the opportunity to use that skill and have it rewarded. A game where tactics are irrelevant, or a waste of time, will become a game where nobody bothers to try anymore.

[TenchiHawkwing]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

A game where tactics are irrelevant, or a waste of time, will become a game where nobody bothers to try anymore.

You can already see this, the number of Lv75 n00bs is increasing daily.

I ran into a guy just yesterday who, I shit you not, did not know how to skillchain as a Lv74 Warrior. It's not like that kinda thing didn't ever happen in the past, but it's alot more common now, and it's sad.

[Malacite]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

It's filler in that there are much more pressing issues at the moment that are critical to game balance in a number areas. And actually, as paying customers we do have the right to criticize what SE puts into the game, whether it accomplishes anything or not lol.


That aside, guard mastery is more or less what I was thinking; but I think MNK should also gain TP on counter attacks and kicks (they currently do not, WTF)


I'd like to see SE give BLM some party buffs. Yes, it's a destructive class by nature, but a few BLM only party buffs like Steel (FF1) would be cool. Oh, and Tier V nukes PLEASE. They're in the game, we know the exist. Just give them to us already >.>b and/or tweak the resistance rates of enemies in ToAU. I find that far, far too many mobs resist spells and skillchains like they're nothing.

A lot of people are going to disagree with me on this, but I think RDM could use a power boost as well. The majority of my friends and LS agree that BLU is what RDM should have been; a Fighter Mage. Yes, it's a very good support/enfeebling job, but I for one would like to see RDM's offensive capabilities powered up. It's sad that such a versatile class gets "pigeon-holed" into the same role all the time.


Getting back to SMN, I despise SE for sticking it into the role it's in. SMN was never a main healer. It's always been a DD/Support class, with the bulk of it's spells doing massive damage to multiple targets with a few healing/buff spells.

Some people have cried fowl at the thought of SMN out damaging BLM in the magic department, but I strongly believe they should. BLM has always been about efficient use of MP against usually a single target. SMN by contrast, spends tonnes of MP to @&*^!*&@ up an entire group of them.

FFXI shouldn't be any different. In the short term, a SMN should be able to out perform a BLM, with the BLM having the higher damage potential over a longer period of time due to generally lower casting costs. As it is, I don't feel SMN does enough damage to justify the MP it spends, while BLM's maul HNMs and the like (I know I'm exaggerating a bit here but you know it's true)


I got a lot of other things I wanna say but dinner's nearly ready and I g2g ^^b

[Taskmage]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

You can already see this, the number of Lv75 n00bs is increasing daily.
I ran into a guy just yesterday who, I shit you not, did not know how to skillchain as a Lv74 Warrior. It's not like that kinda thing didn't ever happen in the past, but it's alot more common now, and it's sad.

That was true even before, though.

I think Karinya certainly has a valid viewpoint, but you're going to upset a lot more people by nerfing something than by buffing it, and there's little more important to the business than keeping your customers happy. If a nerf needs to happen in some form then they should buff the mobs or nerf the respawn time on mobs or the experience bonus from sanction. That way no particular job or class can feel victimized. If they buff players a little and buff the challenges in the game more, they can still tweak up the difficulty while still allowing the sheep to thing they're getting presents instead of picked on.

Honestly though, I don't see the harm in making the game easier. Yeah, sure there are gonna be people who get to 75 without learning their job, but some people are just going to do that regardless and making them suffer through more repetitive grind isn't going to solve that. For the player who actually likes to be challenged there are still plenty of opportunities in the game for that as well.

I don't see the problem with burn-type parties and the like as being too much experience, I just think it's disappointing that strategies that require much less skill and coordination than the "standard" combination of tank, healer, skillchainers and magic bursters are superior from a risk-reward standpoint.

[Mhurron]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

I despise SE for sticking it into the role it's in. SMN was never a main healer.

Talk to your fellow players. SE never made SMN a healer.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

Oh, and SMN. Poor, poor SMN. They make pretty good healers, and I don't think S-E intends on changing that any time soon. If they really wanted to give players incentive to leave avatars out, they have one of two options:

1.Remove Avatar perpetuation cost, or

2.Remove Blood Pact costs.

No offense, but this is the stupidest suggestion ever. SMN is stupidly overpowered in HNMs and doing your above comments would make use of any melee retarded, and everyone would kill everything with multiple NIN/BRD, couple healers, and only SMNs.

Seriously, SMN is a hate free uber nuke. Any SMN complaining for changes is a moron.


Anyway, my hopes? After all this time, I have none, SE seems to pull stuff outta it's ass for most of the updates. That and they have bee 'thinking about' how to fix BST for a long time now and done crap so far.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

No offense, but this is the stupidest suggestion ever. SMN is stupidly overpowered in HNMs and doing your above comments would make use of any melee retarded, and everyone would kill everything with multiple NIN/BRD, couple healers, and only SMNs.
Seriously, SMN is a hate free uber nuke. Any SMN complaining for changes is a moron.
Anyway, my hopes? After all this time, I have none, SE seems to pull stuff outta it's ass for most of the updates. That and they have bee 'thinking about' how to fix BST for a long time now and done crap so far.

I've considered everything you said already, as well as have the SMNs I play with. I know they're deadly, I know that(with the proposed options) they'd perhaps become unbalanced. They aren't complaining, they are generally accepting of their lot in life(generally).

But what else do you have to offer that would give SMN incentive to perpetuate their avatars?

You can give them as many new Blood Pacts as you like, both offensive and support. As long as they come with a price(in mana), as long as avatars expend mana while in play, then a SMN will not keep their avatar out longer than it takes to use a BP. It all comes back to mana expenditure.

I never said SMN was horribly gimped, but S-E did say they wanted to explore more options that involve the avatar remaining in play... well, the solution is right there. Whether they do anything with it is anyone's guess.

[RunningDemon]

Re: Upcoming Version Update (02/09/2007)

SMN does not need changes. It is the #1 DD on 95% of things now period if you have enough of them. It needs hit with the nerf stick, or SE needs to actaully bring other jobs up to snuff.