Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

[Jonastb]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

You know, it occured to me. SE set up a game where you could customize you play with abilities, weapons, armor, skill sets, and other things. Yet every time something new is brought in, it is scrutinized and decided that ALL players should only pick certain things. Either has to be what is best for the party, or what is best for endgame. No one is allowed to pick things because they enjoy playing it that way.

Oh, and at the same time, lets bitch and complain about how many cookie cutter jobs people are forced to use.

As for the original topic 5 pages ago, PLD looks to be getting a ton, and though the updates for the new jobs are nice, I would have really liked to see how they were going to make BST a more attractive job, since all they have done is mess it up and say they wont fix it for solo anymore. I find it very annoying that a job is allowed to solo for 3 years before SE says, oh we didn't mean that, but we aren't going to make it better for parties.

[Kholdstare]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

You know, it occured to me. SE set up a game where you could customize you play with abilities, weapons, armor, skill sets, and other things. Yet every time something new is brought in, it is scrutinized and decided that ALL players should only pick certain things. Either has to be what is best for the party, or what is best for endgame. No one is allowed to pick things because they enjoy playing it that way.

Oh, and at the same time, lets bitch and complain about how many cookie cutter jobs people are forced to use.

As for the original topic 5 pages ago, PLD looks to be getting a ton, and though the updates for the new jobs are nice, I would have really liked to see how they were going to make BST a more attractive job, since all they have done is mess it up and say they wont fix it for solo anymore. I find it very annoying that a job is allowed to solo for 3 years before SE says, oh we didn't mean that, but we aren't going to make it better for parties.

People tend to feel that since it's an MMO, everyone should be playing for the betterment of the whole, which is the reason people do things like call one another gimped for using cheap ring A instead of 10million gil ring B. It's all because people want their own time playing to be worthwhile, so if someone isn't playing at optimum efficiency, (i.e. you get 8k per hour instead of 10 in your TPburn) the game is magically not fun >.>;

I really do agree with the BST update. They need to fix the jobs that need it. PLD needs this update, and BLU kinda does too (being cornholed into DD for several points in time is disheartening), I feel, but I think the DRK or COR adjustments could have been overlooked for the jobs that need it more, like BST, or one of the other jobs that seems to be having problems progressing.

Then again, seeing as BST is pretty much SE's red-headed stepchild in this game, an update will probably come last, be all but useless, or both.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Where are the RDM upgrades!?!?!

I demand an A in Sword Skill.

And access to Swift Blade no matter the sub.

And an Auto-Refresh Job Trait.

And access to heavy armor.

And those Uber 45+ Damage Swords.

And a voke-

Ok, I pretty much want RDMs to have what PLDs have, so that we can say "Screw you tards, I'm gonna go straight-tank solo Fafnir with a NIN sub."

/endsarcasm

Everything in the game was made with the idea of Party-Balance (well... Ideally. SE does some brain farts sometimes...)

So yeah.

CORs needed a Dispel and a Sleep. Albeit it's not as feasably useful as the same effect from a RDM or BRD or even BLM (1min timer comes into effect here vie this thinking), and unless I'm mistaken, it can still miss if the COR has bad accuracy...

Point is, pts that have COR have one more degree of link control than they used to.

My friend said something to me (he's a BRD and he's biased...): "CORs can never replace BRDs, they don't have Dispel and Sleep."

Now they are definately pt buffers who can stand on their own two feet.

[Jei]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

I'm not sure if Cor's quick draw can miss. Mine got resisted a lot, but always hit however.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Just to kinda bring this back on track:

The /ignorepet feature is going to be added, but this begs the question of fellowship NPCs. I know SE expanded the areas in which you can take them, yet still prohibit others.

Are the king, grand and brothers (hydra, cerebrus - they're bros) camps amoung the zones that fellowship NPCs cannot be called in? Sky or Sea even? I've never really though to try in such areas, SE stated that a fellow NPC could still be targeted and if they can be called in those areas, then essentially nothing nothing has changed, the problem would just move to fellowship NPCs.

You know, it occured to me. SE set up a game where you could customize you play with abilities, weapons, armor, skill sets, and other things. Yet every time something new is brought in, it is scrutinized and decided that ALL players should only pick certain things. Either has to be what is best for the party, or what is best for endgame. No one is allowed to pick things because they enjoy playing it that way.

I remember when COR merits were revealed, that I was scrutinized for being interested in meritting Quick Draw Recast and Quick Draw accuracy and was told that I should merit Phantom Roll recast and Bust Duration.

Now with this announcement, the very same people who bashed the idea of meriting QD recast and Accuracy are scrambling to do so. I had to laugh when I saw it happen on the KI forums yesterday.

Guess I was ahead of the curve on that one, buy hey, at least I'm not gonna have to toss 10k away to lower my other merited ability levels to do it. So glad I took my time with COR.

CORs needed a Dispel and a Sleep. Albeit it's not as feasably useful as the same effect from a RDM or BRD or even BLM (1min timer comes into effect here vie this thinking), and unless I'm mistaken, it can still miss if the COR has bad accuracy...

While QD is based on a few different statistics (Bullet DMG, Magic Attack and now AGI), the end result is still elemental magic damage and no bullet is consumed, just the card in its place. So it can't miss, but it can be resisted.

I'm guessing since Dark Shot is our Dispel, that actual resists would be extremely rare since both RDM and Fenrir don't see resists on Dispel. But I can see the Sleep effect on Light Shot seeing resists depending on mob type, most of the time, light based sleep isn't as effective as dark based.

[Akashimo]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Where are the RDM upgrades!?!?!

I demand an A in Sword Skill.

And access to Swift Blade no matter the sub.

And an Auto-Refresh Job Trait.

And access to heavy armor.

And those Uber 45+ Damage Swords.

And a voke-

Ok, I pretty much want RDMs to have what PLDs have, so that we can say "Screw you tards, I'm gonna go straight-tank solo Fafnir with a NIN sub."

/endsarcasm

Everything in the game was made with the idea of Party-Balance (well... Ideally. SE does some brain farts sometimes...)

Yes & yes, even though its sarcasm >>; But then we'd hear blus asking for the same.
<.< >.>; rdm = whm/blm mage jack of all trades, blu = sam in spell caster form jack of all trades, lol.... anyways, new spells, sweet. If they gave blu a type of convert ability or spell, we might see one trying to pull off the rdm solo stunts o.O;

PLD update is starting to put some faith back into pld for me when i'm not on mnk XD. But for bst, I do agree that it seriously need fixes more over than the other jobs.

Still waiting for a whm and thf update >.> <.< >.> Maybe a JA that gives pty members evasion boost to match the thfs and works hand in hand some how with ambush?

Note on cor, rarely pty with them and barely lvled my own, but trying to put them on the lvl of brd and rdm for debuffs/refresh/sleep links/buffs, at least they're trying and maybe have something better in store depending how this update goes.

[Icemage]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Actually, the only reason light-based sleep (Lullaby) sees more resists usually than dark-based sleep (Sleep) is because Bards have C rank music skills. If you look at monster resistances, very, very few enemies resist Light element, while many are vulnerable to it (as oppposed to Dark element sleeps, which are resisted by a lot of things - Antica, Demons, Funguars, undead, bats, etc.).

Dispel-type effects, on the other hand, tend to be very accurate as a whole. It's pretty easy to Dispel most things even 7 or 8 levels above you.

I would expect both Light and Dark shot versions of Quick Draw to be pretty accurate overall.


Icemage

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

just a quick note -- it's quite easy to dispel things 30 levels ahead of you. 64 SMN/32 RDM Dispels successfully more often than not.

There were a bunch of irritating statements in this thread but I don't remember them all.

DRG meriting the wyvern things is A OK. It's apparently a pretty big boost on the wyvern breath damage (which really means it's more damage from your WS that you don't get hate from. Not much different than meriting Overwhelm). But more than anything, if you merit abilities based on a solo perspective, then that's your thing. As for me, I really enjoy playing solo, but I'm willing to spend loads of money on doing it. In that regard, I would never merit a tool expertise ability if I were a NIN. Meanwhile, my brother soloes DC stuff as his RDM for seals/money. He's in it for the cash so of course he saves wherever he can. If he were 75 NIN, he'd prolly merit Tool Expertise thingy. So yeah, perspective. Btw, I'm Warrior and If I can get WAR AF2 body (reduces evasion penalty from aggressor), I'll probably merit Aggressive Aim (increases ranged accuracy while Aggressor's in effect) just so I can use my Xbow better soloing. :3

If they change RDM soon, I'd like to see more enfeebling ability. And maybe something to increase their kill speed in solo settings. Most people think that last sentence is crazy-talk, so I'll say it again: increase RDM solo kill speed. Who gives a shit if they can solo hard NMs? It takes loads of skill, even more time, and it's not all that beneficial. Meanwhile, can they solo exp like BLU and BLM can? I guess I've never seen a rdm/nin with joy/justice in action, but last I knew, NIN/war was better at soloing Limbus floors than Rdm/anything. But what do I know? I'm a warrior and DC kicks my ass.

At first, I wasn't keen on PLD getting Auto-Refresh just because it's reuse of a trait that's so magey, that one would think pure mages have more rights to it than a PLD. Another perspective though, would be that the 2 jobs that need to be standing all the time have the trait. Summoners cannot be resting while concentrating on maintaining Avatars. And Paladins are on the front lines, toe-to-toe with massive monsters. It only makes sense that neccessity would make them develop methods of meditating in combat. Aka recovering mp while fighting.

RP aside, Auto-Refresh + Shield Mastery was a brilliant combination from a DD perspective. A little DD goes a long way for a PLD. They have the 2nd highest STR growth in the game, good DD equipment options, the only A+ rank in a one-handed weapon, and some good weapon skills. So giving them a tp trick and a reason to keep their tp between fights was a move to help compete with the kill speed of a NIN party. Parade Gorget is nice, but it's not constant. Ditto Sanction refresh. Bibiki Bay is still happening on my server, at least.

OMFGBBQKitten, Icemage did read your last post quite thoroughly. I got what he was talking about. When he argued about shooting faster, he wasn't going back to the topic of meriting what you want instead of what he wants. He was arguing about you saying "you don't need more hate" when you do, in fact. RNGs biggest weakness is their lower ability to increase attack rate. When the other DDs hit hard and accurately, they start working on attacking faster. Basically, hate's barely an issue in tp burns, so it wasn't a good argument for you to make. He pointed that out from an objective point of view. Not an "Icemage knows better for your character" point of view.

I'm not sure I like the changes for COR, as I feel you'll often have COR only using light/dark shots and never the rest. I guess this is cool in tp/ mana burns where there aren't any debuffs to enhance, but in standard party settings, I'd much rather see Slows and Paralyzes getting buffed than the COR becoming a Dispel Bish. At any rate, since I found out QD was a 3 min recast, I've been anticipating it getting lowered to 1 min.

Btw, battle of Agincourt is a bad example. You have a bunch of knights who normally fight on horseback dismounted and tumbling through the mud. While they're trying to gain their footing, a bunch of people are basically masacring them. The archers with shortswords and hatchets could of easily been peasants with kitchen knives. Same effect would've been reached.

PLD changes are swell. Makes me wonder about 4x pld/nin + some combination of backliners. Fighting monsters that regularly use magic AoE. Chaining Ramparts to keep out Cursed Sphere and shadows to keep out melee damage. With their own cures, flashes, and auto refresh, would they even need a Refresher? Maybe the other 2 jobs should be Drks...

QD changes make these the only instant Dispel and only instant Sleep effects in the game. May become useful just in those regards. In fact, it potentially gives Corsair the ability to perform as a Stunner. As for dispel, I was quite keen on the idea of BLUs and CORs being made to function as a team (brd + DD ideally = Cor + Blu in buff, debuff, dispel, refresh, and damage ability).

BLU... I think they're already overpowered but I'd like to see them do more than Self-SC.

Dunno anything about PUP. I hope these "occasionally causes" effects are "more often than not."

[Vyuru]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Just a comment on the dragoon meriting, but Deep Breathing wouldn't be high on my list of things to merit. To get the full effect of Deep Breathing your wyvern's hp must be full, it is on a 20min recast timer and it can be merited down to 10 or 15 minutes I think.

It is a big boost, but only if it is unresisted. And from a soloing standpoint, an ability to boost my wyverns healing breaths every 20 minutes is rather useless, I will never need it and if I did want increased healing breaths, there is the relic helm and I just make an equipment swap macro to gain the benefits of both.

I can take on tough mobs for 200 exp/kill, I can take on some low VT/high T mobs for more exp, but those hit harder and I start to run into problems with how much mp I have and how hard they hit me for. But I have gotten up to chain 4 on Tough and even mobs while solo, solo mind you, that is pretty good and I see no point in meriting an ability that would not help me in reaching chain 5, and whose usefulness in a party is debatable.

For sure it'll be full Angon merits, and most likely full Empathy merits for me. If I were to merit Deep Breathing, it'd just be one merit to gain the ability, even then I might prefer full Empathy, or I may have to take another look at what Strafe does.

I'll probably merit Aggressive Aim (increases ranged accuracy while Aggressor's in effect) just so I can use my Xbow better soloing. :3

Not just that, but isn't the accuracy of Tomahawk based on your throwing skill? And doesn't increasing ranged accuracy increase your throwing accuracy as well?

[Lmnop]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Tomahawk always hits.

[Malacite]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

I'd like to see some proper freaking offensive boosts for PLD actually. It's always traditionally been one of, if not the strongest classes in the series (Play FF1 again sometime >_>) and IMO is in sore need of something to kick a little more ass as it rightly should. Not enough to rival an actual DD job of course, but some kind of boost so that it's DoT or at least weapon skills are more respectable. This would have the double effect of generating more hate, and damage mitigation via killing the mob faster :3


The PLD updates this month are awsome, but there's still a couple of things SE could do with them.

1) Change Sentinel to a Berserk-like ability. If SE is truly serious about making PLD the tank we all know it should be, then Sentinel should last for at least 3 minutes.

2) Auto-regen maybe? I never understood how the one job that's meant to take a continuous beating didn't get this ability >.>

[Tadacho]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

1) Change Sentinel to a Berserk-like ability. If SE is truly serious about making PLD the tank we all know it should be, then Sentinel should last for at least 3 minutes.

2) Auto-regen maybe? I never understood how the one job that's meant to take a continuous beating didn't get this ability >.>

That would be too easy, quite simply lol...

[KoukiRyu]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

I'm a little late cause I haven't checked the forums for the past few days, but wow these updates are pretty exciting. @_@ I don't even play these jobs, and they look great over all. I'm sure my DRK friend is really happy about the Absorb spells, and I know my PLD friend is super excited about his new skills. :D I believe over all this is a great update, and good job SE! :3

[Kurb]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

it's ok shield mastery is a good touch im capped <i think> on lvl 57 and it will be nice to land a cure 3 after you block an enemy hit

[Mouser]

Re: Job Adjustments - 12/01/2006

Just a comment on the dragoon meriting, but Deep Breathing wouldn't be high on my list of things to merit. To get the full effect of Deep Breathing your wyvern's hp must be full, it is on a 20min recast timer and it can be merited down to 10 or 15 minutes I think.

It's 15 minute recast and provides sufficient Magical Attack Bonus to double the base Wyvern breath damage or healing. Damage is not based on the Wyvern's current HPs. Healing is based on the Wyverns max HP, not current.

With Deep Breathing, my wyvern's base breath damage is boosted from 180 to 360. It can still get resisted as usual. I also have 1 level of Strafe so it gets resisted a little less. It's not incredibly useful, but it's handy at times.

Most of the merit JA tend to fall into the useful at times but not awesome category. Angon is nice I guess, but for what I do (merit/dynamis/limbus) there's no real benefit for making it last longer than the base 30 seconds and it doesn't even overwrite the DEF down from acid bolts. Empathy is interesting, but the lack of control over which buff gets transferred makes it a bit frustrating. My Wyvern doesn't really benefit from Hasso and mages get annoyed if you keep clicking off buffs to get the right one to the front of the queue.