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  • #46
    Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

    I dunno, I kinda think SE understand why PC users use windower. Also, a lot of the things we're doing with it right now are things SE probably originally planned for us to do and then scrapped at the last minute. A good example of this would probably be the party TP plugin/hack that other users either envy or hate. The feedback I got from the creators of this plugin was that this piece of code was in the original build, but scrapped in Alpha or Beta testing for whatever reason. It is, however, still on the server feed that comes to our clients, which is how the thing works in the first place. If SE really doesn't like that particular plugin, all they really need to do is correct the server to stop sending that on the packet. And a lot of the plugins for Windower are like that, they either use code that wasn't in the final build but was included in earlier ones, or they exist simply to make finding information quicker and easier for end users, (Like the Bloodpace plugin that was a glorified version of checking a Summoner's Blood Pact timer without having to wade through the menus to bring that info up every time you were curious).

    I dunno, I mainly use Windower to stop Norton Anti-Virus from dropping me offline every week when I forget to reset the auto-scan setting. I'm also hit at least once a day by some wonderful person in Kiev who apparently thinks I've got the holy grail on my hard drive. I'd be worried, but his traceroute is exactly the same every day: Kiev to Prague to Nice, France to Palo Alto to San Luis Obispo and over three states to my compy, which immediately triggers the warning message and blocks his entry. It's kind of nice to be able to stop what I'm doing in FFXI, make sure this monkey isn't screwing around with anything, and not have to worry about finding a safe place to logout while he sifts through something important.

    I think PC gamers will probably continue to use windower type programs for a good long time, because being able to do several things at once is the whole reason you buy or build a PC in the first place. I spent 4 times the cost of your XBox360 for a reason, and that reason is so I can surf the internet, do my taxes, and answer my emails in between casts as I fish from the Ferry. There are way to many time-sinks in this game that are not fun in the slightest, but are still useful to your character development not to at least try something on the side. I think most of the console gamers will find the majority of Windower users aren't too much different than you guys are when you try playing the game on one TV while watching a movie on the other.

    MMO's have always had these massive timesinks, and until someone decides it's worth taking the risk to remove the "3 hours of watching paint dry for skillups" side of these games, there really won't be much incentive not to use a windower type program on the PC.

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

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    • #47
      Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

      Originally posted by Onionsoilder View Post
      Un untill about one and a half years ago, I was playing FFXI full screen. I DID use the gamma darkens in windower, but for whatever reason that only blurred the colors together. The one on Windower(F11, ot from control settings -> gamma) works just fine though.
      It is dissapointing that SE couldn't let me play full-screen if I wanted to... but I will still be the first person in line for their next MMO.
      For point 1 you put up. Was the issue of not getting POL to start without windower, begin after you started using the windower? From what I recall that is expected of windower seems it alters the registry and probably part of the .exe file to do what it does. So making POL unrunnable without the windower.

      That is fixable if you wipe out the system of the windower along with POL, and re-install on a clean install. If you mean you were getting the TnL type error when you tried the POL from the given description of what happened with FFXI's gamma settings it sounds like you got a bad or incompatible driver running with your video card that POL just didn't not like.

      Originally posted by Kitalrez View Post
      I dunno, I kinda think SE understand why PC users use windower. Also, a lot of the things we're doing with it right now are things SE probably originally planned for us to do and then scrapped at the last minute. A good example of this would probably be the party TP plugin/hack that other users either envy or hate. The feedback I got from the creators of this plugin was that this piece of code was in the original build, but scrapped in Alpha or Beta testing for whatever reason. It is, however, still on the server feed that comes to our clients, which is how the thing works in the first place. If SE really doesn't like that particular plugin, all they really need to do is correct the server to stop sending that on the packet. And a lot of the plugins for Windower are like that, they either use code that wasn't in the final build but was included in earlier ones, or they exist simply to make finding information quicker and easier for end users, (Like the Bloodpace plugin that was a glorified version of checking a Summoner's Blood Pact timer without having to wade through the menus to bring that info up every time you were curious).
      I dunno, I mainly use Windower to stop Norton Anti-Virus from dropping me offline every week when I forget to reset the auto-scan setting. I'm also hit at least once a day by some wonderful person in Kiev who apparently thinks I've got the holy grail on my hard drive. I'd be worried, but his traceroute is exactly the same every day: Kiev to Prague to Nice, France to Palo Alto to San Luis Obispo and over three states to my compy, which immediately triggers the warning message and blocks his entry. It's kind of nice to be able to stop what I'm doing in FFXI, make sure this monkey isn't screwing around with anything, and not have to worry about finding a safe place to logout while he sifts through something important.
      I think PC gamers will probably continue to use windower type programs for a good long time, because being able to do several things at once is the whole reason you buy or build a PC in the first place. I spent 4 times the cost of your XBox360 for a reason, and that reason is so I can surf the internet, do my taxes, and answer my emails in between casts as I fish from the Ferry. There are way to many time-sinks in this game that are not fun in the slightest, but are still useful to your character development not to at least try something on the side. I think most of the console gamers will find the majority of Windower users aren't too much different than you guys are when you try playing the game on one TV while watching a movie on the other.
      MMO's have always had these massive timesinks, and until someone decides it's worth taking the risk to remove the "3 hours of watching paint dry for skillups" side of these games, there really won't be much incentive not to use a windower type program on the PC.
      Did you really get feedback from the developers on that? The first I can BS about the starting paragraph is that just because the server feeds the data out doesn't mean all of it was intended for the player to actually see. Perfect example is the server feeds out LS messages, Party messages, and tells out to everyone in the zone. A person who's cracked the encryption on the packets can actually read all these messages that were not intended to go to them.


      Cheezy Test Result (I am nerdier than 96% of all people. Are you nerdier? Click here to find out!)

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      • #48
        Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

        Originally posted by Macht View Post
        Did you really get feedback from the developers on that? The first I can BS about the starting paragraph is that just because the server feeds the data out doesn't mean all of it was intended for the player to actually see.
        IIRC that was what Cliff and Azaril stated when TParty was first released in Windower. Something along the lines of: "Here's stuff you were meant to have, but didn't make the final cut for some reason." Which is why I'm rehashing it here. It would technically make sense, because other than laziness I'm not really seeing a reason for that info to be sent to the client, since combat is mostly handled server side if I'm understanding how the code works.

        Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

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        • #49
          Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

          Originally posted by pearlsea View Post
          As long as an item is not "EX" then there is no reason you cant sell the item, if you sell autumnstones just because there is more demand then supply for them and you can make some good money its fine, SE just needs to change the NM pop conditions or something to make it less inconvinient for those who want to pop Byakko.
          S.E should have made those drop items exe. Just like they did for emporer an L.L. No what does S.E do. They change Ulli's pop time from 3-6hours to 6-21 hours. So the only people who this really helps out is the RMT in sky. An what about those other Pop items? S.E never touched them. ( please note this as another half ass attempt on there part)

          My point is if players are complaining about a certain group at 3pm, 10pm at 2am, an at 10am. It is certainly worth a look into.

          Nin75, Bst75. Drk61, War61, Rdm40, All other jobs are 37. All 3 starting city missions completed. All Zilart missions completed. All CoP missions completed. TouA completed.

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          • #50
            Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

            Some information has recently been leaked about the identity of this "Special Task Force" that will be handling the RMT problem. Yeah, I definately think Square Enix made a good call on this one, to say that they chose the right men for the job would be the biggest understatement of all time.

            Click here to see the faces of the men who will bring an end to all RMTing once and for all!

            Yep, those gilsellers are officially screwed!
            Click here to for words of wisdom from the wisest man to ever walk the face of the earth!

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            • #51
              Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

              Originally posted by Kitalrez View Post
              IIRC that was what Cliff and Azaril stated when TParty was first released in Windower. Something along the lines of: "Here's stuff you were meant to have, but didn't make the final cut for some reason." Which is why I'm rehashing it here. It would technically make sense, because other than laziness I'm not really seeing a reason for that info to be sent to the client, since combat is mostly handled server side if I'm understanding how the code works.
              It's called Broadcasting, very common with data used in UDP. Everyone is getting a identical packet of information. What I'm suspecting you are getting confused with is that the Cliff guy when creating his Third-Party crap, had his own Alpha and Beta versions of his stuff that at first he had it on there then removed from his completed version. Likely a demonstration of some moral fiber on his behalf. Then after said "WTF" and released it.

              Otherwise that info that is sent out from the server is just broadcasted data or to be more precise the evolved version called multicast. The data is identical and has to cover everything that everyone receiving it will need, so of course it's going to have some data you were never intended to see. The data you are intended to see the client will take out of the broadcast and display for you.

              Originally posted by Anson View Post
              Some information has recently been leaked about the identity of this "Special Task Force" that will be handling the RMT problem. Yeah, I definately think Square Enix made a good call on this one, to say that they chose the right men for the job would be the biggest understatement of all time.
              Click here to see the faces of the men who will bring an end to all RMTing once and for all!

              Yep, those gilsellers are officially screwed!
              Lol, nice one! The A Team!


              Cheezy Test Result (I am nerdier than 96% of all people. Are you nerdier? Click here to find out!)

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              • #52
                Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                Originally posted by Anson View Post
                Some information has recently been leaked about the identity of this "Special Task Force" that will be handling the RMT problem. Yeah, I definately think Square Enix made a good call on this one, to say that they chose the right men for the job would be the biggest understatement of all time.

                Click here to see the faces of the men who will bring an end to all RMTing once and for all!

                Yep, those gilsellers are officially screwed!
                For 2 years Mr. T disappeared. Gilsellors went unpitied and Jibber-Jabber went unchallenged!
                Standablaze
                Server: Ramuh
                Jobs: Dark Knight, Red Mage
                Level: Not stated, because I can't be bothered updating 5 signatures when I level. Lets say mid levels.

                英語ができますか

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                • #53
                  Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                  I have concerns about the criteria they're using to sniff out gilsellers. I'm worried that ultimately this could lead to the removal of all of the accounts belonging to former import players (i.e. players who do not actually live in Japan but were forced to input a Japanese address because they started playing with the Japanese release) because so many of them are using the same address. I could definately see SE going "Hey, there's 700 people using this address, they must ALL be RMT! /ban /ban /ban!! Let's make an announcement now about how great we are and what wonderful measures we're taking to stop RMT!!!"

                  Regarding Windower, I use PS2 and have never been able to take advantage of some of the features Windower has, such as displaying the monster's % of hitpoints or the distance in meters away from your target that you're standing. I think this is why SE dislikes Windower so much, because they've always been kind of set on everyone having basically the same gaming experience, whether they're on PS2 or PC, or now Xbox. Honestly, if this WASN'T part of the reason they're upset about it, they probably would have had a lightbulb go off over their heads by now to the fact that they could release their OWN, inhouse, non-3rd-party version of Windower and CHARGE everybody for it, forcing them to use THEIR version instead of the one out there, and in doing so, make more money for basically doing nothing.
                  召75|吟75|黒75|赤75|戦72|白60|獣40|忍37| 暗37|シ37|ナ32|侍30|モ30|竜21|青14||か8| 狩7|コ7
                  San D'oria: Rank 10 | Windurst: Rank 10 | Bastok: Rank 10 | Cooking: 97 | Zilart - Completed | CoP - Completed

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                  • #54
                    Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                    Originally posted by SharMarali View Post
                    I have concerns about the criteria they're using to sniff out gilsellers. I'm worried that ultimately this could lead to the removal of all of the accounts belonging to former import players (i.e. players who do not actually live in Japan but were forced to input a Japanese address because they started playing with the Japanese release) because so many of them are using the same address. I could definately see SE going "Hey, there's 700 people using this address, they must ALL be RMT! /ban /ban /ban!! Let's make an announcement now about how great we are and what wonderful measures we're taking to stop RMT!!!"

                    Regarding Windower, I use PS2 and have never been able to take advantage of some of the features Windower has, such as displaying the monster's % of hitpoints or the distance in meters away from your target that you're standing. I think this is why SE dislikes Windower so much, because they've always been kind of set on everyone having basically the same gaming experience, whether they're on PS2 or PC, or now Xbox. Honestly, if this WASN'T part of the reason they're upset about it, they probably would have had a lightbulb go off over their heads by now to the fact that they could release their OWN, inhouse, non-3rd-party version of Windower and CHARGE everybody for it, forcing them to use THEIR version instead of the one out there, and in doing so, make more money for basically doing nothing.
                    Well, to put it bluntly, I wouldnt pay to use a windower endorced by SE.

                    I paid for the game, I pay for it monthly, I'm not paying extra to use window mode when I can pick out another online game that allows Alt + Tabbing.
                    Standablaze
                    Server: Ramuh
                    Jobs: Dark Knight, Red Mage
                    Level: Not stated, because I can't be bothered updating 5 signatures when I level. Lets say mid levels.

                    英語ができますか

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                    • #55
                      Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                      Originally posted by SharMarali View Post
                      Regarding Windower, I use PS2 and have never been able to take advantage of some of the features Windower has, such as displaying the monster's % of hitpoints or the distance in meters away from your target that you're standing. I think this is why SE dislikes Windower so much, because they've always been kind of set on everyone having basically the same gaming experience, whether they're on PS2 or PC, or now Xbox. Honestly, if this WASN'T part of the reason they're upset about it, they probably would have had a lightbulb go off over their heads by now to the fact that they could release their OWN, inhouse, non-3rd-party version of Windower and CHARGE everybody for it, forcing them to use THEIR version instead of the one out there, and in doing so, make more money for basically doing nothing.
                      I believe S-E isn't really upset about windower. It's just their policy they set up about giving everyone equal experience. Practically tho, I don't think the dev team themselves really upset about the presence of windower. Windower, after all, keeps 90% of PC players happy. And I believe 90% of non-japanese players play on PC too. Even myself, I wouldn't be able to play FFXI at all if it wasn't released on PC.

                      Talking about convenience, while using PS2, you only lose your ability to watch TV shows or DVD. But while playing on PC, I lose my ability to work on my school projects being a computer graphic student, I lose my main source of networking (would you believe MSN is the main way I keep in touch with friends -.-) and I lose the ability to browse internet. All of these are WAY more severe than watching TV IMO.... I could careless about TV shows, but I can't live without my computer.
                      There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
                      but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
                      transform a yellow spot into the sun.

                      - Pablo Picasso

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                      • #56
                        Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                        And making the software application toggle between fullscreen mode and window mode is not rocket science too... S-E is just stubborn with trying to keep the game environment the same with PS2, which I think is a lame excuse not trying to upgrade the engine of the PC version.
                        Server: Quetzalcoatl
                        Race: Hume Rank 7
                        75 PLD, 75 SAM, 75 WAR, 75 NIN, 75 MNK, 65 BLU

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                        • #57
                          Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                          Originally posted by Celeal View Post
                          And making the software application toggle between fullscreen mode and window mode is not rocket science too... S-E is just stubborn with trying to keep the game environment the same with PS2, which I think is a lame excuse not trying to upgrade the engine of the PC version.
                          Sorry to say but this game was designed around the limitations of the PS2, an running this game off of a 56k modem. Not to mention were all playing on servers 10 yrs old..

                          As for the Ps2 comment. Dont most Tvs nowadays have picture in picture. I mean thats basicallly what the windower is. My one tv thats like 8 yrs old has picture in picture.

                          As for playing feilds being lvled. This is an MMO. The day you logged on you were not on the same playing feild as others. Some had this game first. Others have anot of RL time to invest in it. AN there are those who dont. As long as i can remember ive competed against bots. First is was 1-2 NA HNMLS, Vs alot of HNMLS from overseas. An even when we had them out numbered 3 to 1. We always managed to lose claim. Was it botting was it lag. We will never know. Thats when i first learned of bots, darter editing, an so on.

                          Nin75, Bst75. Drk61, War61, Rdm40, All other jobs are 37. All 3 starting city missions completed. All Zilart missions completed. All CoP missions completed. TouA completed.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                            I find it highly unlikely that they will ever start taking action against the windower. Once word got out people were starting to get banned for it, a lot of people will just start leaving.

                            ALT+TAB is considered to be standard PC functionality. Simply put, it is wrong for Square to intentionally cripple it. I have no problems with them deciding how to play thier game, but how I use *my* PC is none of thier business. As for any PS2 players complaining it gives PC players an "unfair edge", they can cry me a river of thier emo tears.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                              I don't really care much about their stance against windower tho. I'm really interested in their action against RMT. My LS started doing sky farming again lately. The RMTs are still there however. Sad days.
                              There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
                              but there are others who with the help of their art and their intelligence
                              transform a yellow spot into the sun.

                              - Pablo Picasso

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                              • #60
                                Re: Special Task Force (11/06/2006)

                                Dealing with gilsellers is an issue that is mentioned repeatedly and often dealt with accordinglly, however; I don't believe it is possible to be stopped unless SE changes a few rules of their own. Yes, they should be allowed to ban RMT. especially based on other players accousations. I'm not sure, but I think a FF court system would actually be quite cool.

                                Alot of us don't have the time to farm for our own gil, but let me tell you. I've been playing since the game first came out, and before gilsellers existed, you were able to farm for a day and afford the item you needed. Nothing was outrageously priced as it is now, or especially for the christmas holiday. I can remember farming for my own Jujitsu Gi, logging in buburmu peninsula for just a few hours a day until I could afford it. everything was cheaper back then and it was just nice seeing those low numbers all around. I hate working with a couple million gil and watching it dwindle away like water until I can do the next bcnm or ksnm from beastmens seals or kindred seals that I hardly see anymore. (but thats because i'm not lvling any more jobs 75 sam ftw) But for those like me, what do we do?

                                I also think if this special task force can place themselves on scene of supposedly acclaimed gilsellers, they'd see that the player reporting the accousation is most likely not wrong. I can name a bunch on Ifrit. But they want more than a name... well come see for yourself!

                                About windower.....
                                anyone studying japanese? can anyone speak or write japanese? i'm learning, and over the past two years, I can almost read and write it! I guess that's all i'm allowed to say, few of you will understand where that's coming from, but those few will understand. You know where i'm coming from.

                                Good luck special task force, it's good to hear it. If you need gilseller names from the Ifrit server, you can ask, i'm sure everyone will know.

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