Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

[Aeni]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Yeah, apparently they IP traced both chars and found they were the same. Ofcourse he used to use pos hack occasionally, but they told him it was for 2boxing.

It's not 2boxing if you're doing it from the same source. 2boxing or dual boxing is a term referring to multiple systems setup to handle several accounts. Like running an account on a PS2 and another account on a PC.

Running multiple clients on one PC requires complete hacking of not just how POL is loaded into memory, but altering the way the program runs. This in itself is equivalent to using Flee Tool and other hacks. Totally... illegal.

[Aeolus]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Running multiple clients on one PC just requires the windower or is that the same as using flee tool? Like when you load the windower up twice does it do something else that normally wouldnt happen if you only used it once?

[Taskmage]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

If you have a local network in your household and both your PC and PS2 go through a router to get to your internet service, both will be traced to the same IP. Same IP != same box.

[Standablaze]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Hopefully they pinched the new set of gillsellers that where on Ramuh lately, I think they recently hit the 70s so you know what that means

I havent read the whole topic for the windower debate that happens every time there is a mass banning, but by the looks of it no one using windower was banned. SE arent stupid enough to do that considering most of their users have windower tbh, there are more important things to be doing with the game and maybe (just maybe) SE have realised the whole window issue is petty.

[Rai]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Considering SE has information on DSL/Cable Modem Router setting on their site in the help section, I think they are well aware that people in homes may have multiple boxes playing FFXI. I believe FFXI uses UDP to communicat back and forth with the server, and there may be an identifing bit of code in the packets unique to each client. Perhaps they Attach your MAC address ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address ) to the client seeing the MAC address is unique to your Ethernet port on you PC. 2 clients using the same MAC Address would be a dead give away of not 2 boxing but hacking and 2-clienting on a single box.

I myself 2 box often with a PC and a PS2.

I also recall that there was an FFXI internet cafe in Japan where people could go and play the game.

I know a brother and sister who both play the game, you mean to tell me that 1 is not allowed to play while the other is even though they have 2 legit copies of the game, once copy on a PC the other on a PS2?

So this is all moot. 2 Boxing does not get people banned period that is the most retared BS I have yet heard anyone try to put forth here.

What about Room-mates or people playing from a college campus? I think SE is smart enough to know IP does not = 1 Box.

[Daver]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Considering SE has information on DSL/Cable Modem Router setting on their site in the help section, I think they are well aware that people in homes may have multiple boxes playing FFXI. I believe FFXI uses UDP to communicat back and forth with the server, and there may be an identifing bit of code in the packets unique to each client. Perhaps they Attach your MAC address ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address ) to the client seeing the MAC address is unique to your Ethernet port on you PC. 2 clients using the same MAC Address would be a dead give away of not 2 boxing but hacking and 2-clienting on a single box.

I myself 2 box often with a PC and a PS2.

I also recall that there was an FFXI internet cafe in Japan where people could go and play the game.

I know a brother and sister who both play the game, you mean to tell me that 1 is not allowed to play while the other is even though they have 2 legit copies of the game, once copy on a PC the other on a PS2?

So this is all moot. 2 Boxing does not get people banned period that is the most retared BS I have yet heard anyone try to put forth here.

What about Room-mates or people playing from a college campus? I think SE is smart enough to know IP does not = 1 Box.

Ok, wait a sec. This thread is really confusing me. I have 2 computers with a wireless router. One comp for me upstairs, and one comp for my kids downstairs. I've been thinking of buying a second box and account for my kids. I've done this before with 2 accounts of World of Warcraft. They usually play the game for 3 months, quit, and i cancel the 2nd account.

Is there any chance at all that SOE would somehow think this could possibly be against some sort of TOA or something? Sounds pretty idiotic to me, but I'm not all that network/ISP/magic-blinking-box-thingy saavy. I can't possibly believe that I shouldn't be doing this for some reason.

[Jei]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

I have 3 FFXI running from the same router. So no that shouldn't be any problem.

[little ninja]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

To be honest i think they got busted for doing something illegal while dualboxing, an S.E reps just said it was dualboxing hoping the guy pos an spped hacks, then they will nail 2 for 1.

I know alot of players who run 2 games at the same time from the same cpu. Of course hes a computer geek an has like 4 monitors set up to 1 cpu.

[Caspian]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

To be honest i think they got busted for doing something illegal while dualboxing, an S.E reps just said it was dualboxing hoping the guy pos an spped hacks, then they will nail 2 for 1.

Yeah, I'm thinking SE's customer service was just feeding him a load of crap. They wouldn't say it was for pos hacking, but I wouldn't doubt it. Funny thing was he hasn't had a single warning for it since he started his new account. No GM calls on him or anything. He asked for a specific incident when he was caught using it, but they said they "wouldn't release the information".

[Jaerik]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

There is a side to this that many people outside of the windower dev community do not consider.

First off, it has become evident over the past few years that running FF in windowed mode is not considered an aggregious offense by SE. SE's stance towards the windower team (they know all of their characters and do not ban them), the fact most of their attempts to "break windower" have been more aimed at specific deactivations of 3rd party bots and other cheat utilities rather than aimed squarely the windower hook method, and their general stance and press releases regarding bannings tend to confirm this.

What SE does have a problem with, however, are the 3rd party utilities/bots/hacks that alter gameplay and create a serious advantage for those that use them. All of the bannings SE has ever done regarding 3rd party apps have been aimed at specific types of cheats. The last two were aimed at runspeed and zone warp hacks. The one before that was aimed at the MH-Anywhere exploit. In fact, the MHAnywhere exploit, they patched the bug internally but did not fix it immediately -- instead they allowed people to continue exploiting it, logged the accounts that did, and then mass banned later.

If SE had a serious problem with windower itself, they could very easily and with little effort render it impossible.

That having been said.

Keeping Windower technically illegal in the ToS gives SE a trump card to use against players who they otherwise would not have legal grounds to ban. It is not against the ToS to be a raging asshole, nor is it against the ToS to cause eternal grief to players outside the very limited definition of harassment. Also, if someone is reported 70 times for runspeed hacking but the GM can never get there in time to personally witness it, then by internal SE policy they cannot take action. Indeed, the player will not realize they were ever reported, but will have an enormous backlog of GM investigations on their account.

Leaving windower as a bannable offense gives GM's a certain leeway to remove players from the game which they do not have absolutely 100% proof of a ToS violation against. Once a certain player becomes enough of a problem that they are harming the other players, time and time again, GM's have an option to fall back on them using windower as grounds to remove them from the community. This saves the GM's time and aggravation dealing with constantly investigating the same problem players over and over again. And statements from other MMRPG companies about this same type of practice seem to indicate this is also very likely with SE.

If you look at those who whine on message boards that they were "banned for only using windower," this pattern is extremely evident. Those that claim to have been randomly banned only for windower with no prior GM reports, are generally not sorely missed by their fellow players.

[little ninja]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Yeah the only thing about windower is its not detectable yet. An the only way for S.E to detect it is to install a program on our machines that would scan for it an pick it up. But to do that S.E would have to revise ToS to include such a process, other wise that is a violation of our rights. So if S.E does eventually crack down on windower in this manner. Then i believe you would see alot of accounts terminated that day.

As of right now ingame chat logs is one way for them to pick up on who is using them. But thats not always 100% accurate, because you can average out a mobs hp vs its hp bar. Also talking about it is another way for S.E to key up on it, So keeping yourself from saying anything in regards to it eliminates your being caught this way.

As for those i hear who claimed they got banned for windower an only that. i usually believe 99% of them are full of it. An where playing around with some form of cheat or bot repeatedly. Then theres that 1% Who are victims of mistaken identity, I know at one time there were other chars with my same name, add 1 letter or swith them around like rider, ryder,riderr.

[Jaerik]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Yeah the only thing about windower is its not detectable yet. An the only way for S.E to detect it is to install a program on our machines that would scan for it an pick it up. But to do that S.E would have to revise ToS to include such a process, other wise that is a violation of our rights.

Actually, players have no legal rights in that regard. If SE wanted to include a process to snoop processes on your computer, they legally could and they wouldn't have to tell you, either. Many single player games, as well as WoW, do this in some capacity already. There are no legal guidelines in the industry yet regarding "spyware" type applications in order to protect their own ToS.

They won't do that though, because quite frankly it wouldn't solve much of the problem. Windower isn't a running process anyway. It's a .dll injection which simply redirects the directx calls to a window. So... no dice there, either.

[Jei]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

I thoguht Wow got in trouble for doing so. They eventually had to include that information into their EULA to avoid being sued no?

[little ninja]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

Actually, players have no legal rights in that regard. If SE wanted to include a process to snoop processes on your computer, they legally could and they wouldn't have to tell you, either. Many single player games, as well as WoW, do this in some capacity already. There are no legal guidelines in the industry yet regarding "spyware" type applications in order to protect their own ToS.
They won't do that though, because quite frankly it wouldn't solve much of the problem. Windower isn't a running process anyway. It's a .dll injection which simply redirects the directx calls to a window. So... no dice there, either.

Actually Jei is right. WoW got in bigtime trouble for including such a program into one fo its updates. Im not sure how they cleared the air. An if you read those paragraphs thay you have to accept the ToS. Most state what they are putting on your system.

Have you heard the problems Battlefeild 2142 is having right now with spyware? They actually kept it under wraps. the only way the consumers found out about it, was when they opened up the box an found a disclaimer. An now they may be making money with advertisement thru the game, but i know for a fact that that company has lost a huge number of long time fans with that last move. Its such bad PR for them right now. They resorted to deleting any post about it on there main site.

So let S.E shot there own feet. Not only will they lose their player base from this game an any other game they may produce. You will also see alot of suits for hacking.

[little ninja]

Re: Action Taken Against Third-Party Tool Users (10/19/2006)

The Software may incorporate technology developed by IGA Worldwide Inc. ("IGA") (the "Advertising Technology"). The purpose of the Advertising Technology is to deliver in-game advertisements to you when you use the Software while connected to the Internet. When you use the Software while connected to the Internet, the Advertising Technology may record your Internet Protocol Address and other anonymous information ("Advertising Data"). The Advertising Data is temporarily used by IGA to enable the presentation and measurement of in-game advertisements and other in-game objects which are uploaded temporarily to your personal computer or game console and changed during online game play. The Advertising Technology does not collect any personally identifiable information about you, and EA will not provide IGA with any of your personally identifiable information. The servers used by the Advertising Technology may, from time to time, be located outside your country of residence. If you are located within the European Union, the servers may be located outside the European Union. By installing and using the Software, you agree to: (i) the transfer of the Advertising Data to servers located outside your country of residence and, if applicable, outside the European Union; (ii) the collection and use of the Advertising Data as described in this Section; and (iii) the delivery of advertising and marketing content by the Advertising Technology. IF YOU DO NOT WANT IGA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE OR TRANSMIT THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, DO NOT INSTALL OR PLAY THE SOFTWARE ON ANY PLATFORM THAT IS USED TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET.

Funny the only way you can play the game is to connect to the web. Not to sure if they were willing to refund money. i know alot of stores wont take back open game boxes. especially for the computer.