New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

[Mhurron]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

Tired of people saying "in order to do <insert event>, you need <insert jobs> with <insert items>"

This isn't going to change. They'll just ask for a different job.

[ikkleste]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

wouldn't surpise me (although it's no certain thing) if at the last min before the update, SE springs the promised tweaks to BLM on us, you know the ones that are supposed give BLM more incentive for normal parties to keep inviting BLM at high level?

Black Mage
We recognize that black mage is a very powerful job. We see that a lot of players are forming parties with just black mages, and we would like to change that. We do not plan to weaken the job, but we want to create benefits for partying with other jobs. We are also considering adding new magic to the black mages’ repertoire.

[Valarauko]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

*deleted post*

[Pawkeshup]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

This isn't going to change. They'll just ask for a different job.

Exactly. I say we start placing bets which job will be the bandwagon hopper's next choice.

I say RDM, for chainspell->whatever

Or BRD for sleep.

[DakAttack]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

War/Nin or Mnk

[Visper]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

War/Nin definetly, or maybe even COR.

[DakAttack]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

Everytime I talked to a Blm they raved about Manaburn parties, and bragged about 8-10k an hour EXP. Black mages not being invited to normal parties? That's a lame excuse.

zomg i dint get n e blind invites nobdy wants me /wrists ; ;

[Pawkeshup]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

lol, I never stated that it's a sad day that we are stuck in just Manaburn, just stating the truth. 65-70+ we won't get invites. It will hurt if a lot quit though, because even the MB parties will dry up.

And for the record, MNK TP Spam parties on bones get more EXP than BLM MB.

[Moaku Hyena]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

Looking at the update details...

-Types of Affected Magic Damage
When a notorious monster is repeatedly hit by the following types of magic, it will accumulatively build magic resistance:

Black magic (elemental), white magic (divine), ninjutsu, magical blood pact abilities, magical blue magic, magical weapon skills (e.g., Spirits Within and Red Lotus Blade), and certain job abilities (e.g., Chi Blast and Mijin Gakure)

Notice how they draw it out by listing the skills that will be resisted over time. Enfeebling is not mentioned in this nerf.
Also, judging by the earlier comments, monsters gain resistance if people cast the same type of spell over and over again (i.e. spambombimg Firaga). So, someone will likely throw in a Blizzaga or Thundaga in midst of your Flash spam.
There probably won't be much of a difference from normal when you use different spells, say... Fire > Thunder > Blizzard > Water > Rise > Repeat > Some random ninjitsu Spell.

Edit:
Oh wait, let me add onto that. Earlier mentioned was "If you have one or two BLM in your party, there won't be much of a difference". This means that the rate of casting is proportional to the amount of resistance gained.

[Herrisa]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

Maybe somebody mentioned this, maybe somebody didn't... but resistance to Divine?

Somebody please tell me what HNM/God/big-bad-baddie strategy contains a group of whm getting together and Banish-burning a mob? Please tell me, because I want to try it before the update. ^.^

The only thing that it might really hurt is a Flash routine between PLDs and WHMs.

[Icemage]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

I don't think RDM will be the next bandwagon job, honestly.

(1) RDM is a pain to level if you suck at doing Refresh cycles (which, from experience, 70%+ of players are ineffective at best with).

(2) You don't really need more than 2, maaaybe 3 RDMs in an alliance at any given endgame event other than Dynamis or CoP Wyrms. Swarms of RDM will not let you kill anything effectively. Also, most good HNMLSs have plenty of RDMs already as it is (of the 42 active members in my HNMLS, 14 of us have RDM at level 70+).

(3) RDM puts up some of the lowest damage numbers in the game, behind Bards and White Mages. Most of the BLM and RNG junkies are in it for the big numbers to feed their ego, and RDM just doesn't do anything along those lines.

If the changes to NMs really are as severe as suspected, I think the next bandwagon job will be Blue Mage. It's relatively easy to level, puts up big numbers, and can be played a number of different ways successfully. The only thing that remains to be seen is if Blue Mages can be effective contributors at end-game in anything other than a support role.

Overall, I think this change is going to be good for the overall skill level at end-game, as it strongly discourages "Zerg" mentality tactics, which means HNMLSs are going to have to be smarter, sharper, and much more efficient than they currently need to be to remain successful (particularly in fights that require nuking, such as Aspidochelone).


Icemage

[Balodoth]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

I was thinking DRK might get an influx. Then again, that may not be big numbers often enough to hold their interest.

One concern I have is chainspell. Sometimes it might be used in a way that would shoot the enemy's magic defense through the roof. Isn't this effectively reducing a 2-hour ability?

[Mhurron]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

One concern I have is chainspell. Sometimes it might be used in a way that would shoot the enemy's magic defense through the roof. Isn't this effectively reducing a 2-hour ability?

Chainspell has very few practical uses anyway.

[Kitalrez]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

Wonder how this affects the Fenrir fight with people using 6xSMN.

Wonder if this affects the Maat fight for BLM, RDM, BRD, SMN, etc.

Short answer, it won't. Seriously, if anyone goes in to Fenrir's BC expecting to use a magic based attack, then this person is clearly insane. We have Chaotic Strike, Mountain Buster, and Spinning Dive if the other two don't work. I'm burning my 2hr here so I can keep my avatars out for the next two and a half minutes for free, not because I expect to blast him to death with a well placed Judgement Bolt.

As for Maat on SMN, when I did him, my strategy was to use Eclipse Bite first, then do a 2hr after this. When I won, I beat him with 1 Bite and 1 Howling Moon. (If you interrupt his avatar cast, he gives up). Just as with the lvl 60 cap ENM, you can also Fenrir-kite Maat if you're so enclined. This isn't a fast kill, but it will kill him nonetheless. It may take you 2-3 tries to figure out how to beat him after the update, but this isn't the giant screaming monkey wrench to the SMN job you're making it out to be.

If this does impact us at all, it's going to be the solo-avatar battles, as other posters have mentioned. Given how much SE would like to "fix" SMN from our current /WHM state, you can pretty much bet they aren't going to leave us flapping in the wind here for very long.

S-E can go one of two relatively obvious ways if/when the SMN update comes. In keeping with their stated goal of having us keep our avatars out for the full battle rather than just buff and release, they can either jump up avatar accuracy/dmg, or they can make avatars give out bonuses. We were designed as a support job for most of our careers, so the second would make more sense. But, remember that they've given us the "Waking the Beast" rewards as a controlled test for this already. These trophy pieces are still sought after by people who like the models on them, but a collossal failure as a practically useful weapon in most players' estimation. I've yet to meet anyone other than a SMN who uses one of these weapons for more than giggles.

Which leaves the more obvious path of making avatars slightly more accurate/damaging/less costly. This seems more likely to me, because the current state of our avatars versus normal exp mobs, (especially VTs and ITs), makes them extremely impractical. It's not that we want to play /whm for 70 levels, it's that our avatar damage really, really sucks compared to everyone who isn't playing BRD or WHM as a melee job. We completely miss the mob with bloodpacts constantly, or hit for such a pitiful amount that it would almost be better to spend that mp keeping the avatar out another few seconds for regular melee, (which also whiffs way more than should be possible).

S-E's never expressed any major concerns with us actually using an avatar to do damage in any developer panel yet, they seem much more concerned with the fact that we aren't using avatars nearly enough on this job. I really doubt we'll look at the next major change to our job as a "nerf" when it finally comes down the line.

[Raydeus]

Re: New Notorious Monsters and Battlefields!(07/19/2006)

One concern I have is chainspell. Sometimes it might be used in a way that would shoot the enemy's magic defense through the roof. Isn't this effectively reducing a 2-hour ability?

I wonder if Maat will be affected by the magic resistance thing, if that's the case G5 for RDM might become tougher than ever.