Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

[Macht]

Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

This could already be done in the past. This patch just makes it harder to do the same as you must exceed the person's current enmity to claim it. The mobs still go yellow as normal and stay claimed as normal. The only difference is it is harder to steal claim off of a mob which already had a hate table established. It may not be a perfect solution, but I am very happy with what they did. An improvement is still an improvement.

Umm, that was the point I was making. The difference is the mob doesn't go automaticaly claimed to someone else that attacks it when it's yellow, but the design would seem to allow them to still put the mob on you intentionally while they have claim if they wanted.

[kuu]

Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

This also makes HNMLS groan heh.

Whether intentional or a bug, claim is no longer changed quickly with the "logout" trick used by most HNMLSs.

Situation 1:
Tanks, voke and kite
BLM nukes gets hate, blm logs.
Claim is lost for those precious seconds because the next in line, does not automatically get hate, thus must generate hate to recieve what I call "red status"

It happened to many HNMLSs recently, where loging out = chaos.

[SharMarali]

Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

So the way I can see this being used against people is a BLM (or DRG) claiming hate from a party and ultimatly claiming the mob, with a weak damage dealer hitting to add him under the hate list the original party had. Them BLM warps (or DRG does Super Jump) and this whole claim design is screwed, because now the other party just put hate past original party to claim then sheaded the large portion of it away. It then forces the orginal party to end up in the same situation as before this change.

OK umm... I see where you're coming from. I really do. But SE didn't implement this to prevent two exp PTs from MPKing each other in the crawler's nest. They implemented this to prevent two HNM linkshells from MPKing each other at Fafnir.

Further, even if the change WAS to prevent two exp PTs from MPKing each other in the crawler's nest, they effectively made it MUCH more difficult to acheive that.

Let me give you an example. A long time ago I was soloing a coffer key in Oztroja. At this point in time, I honestly don't remember WHY I wanted that key, but I'm sure it made perfect sense to me at the time. I was there as a RDM/NIN, long before I had my SMN at an appropriate level to solo coffer keys. I was fighting a yagudo, and another yagudo strolled up and linked with the first one. So now I have two yagudos fighting me. I slept the second one and continued fighting the first one.

Unbeknownst to me, there was a THF running around with invisible up. The THF showed up, stole from my linked yagudo, and then used hide. The yagudo was then claimed by the THF, although I still had all the hate. When the yagudo woke up, he proceeded to pound on me and I couldn't do a THING about it because his name was purple. I sent the THF a not-too-nice tell about manners, to which the THF (who was level 60something) replied "Well, I can't solo that thing!" and I said "Well, neither can I because some jackass claimed it!" and we went back and forth until eventually he agreed to join my PT so we could kill the stupid thing.

NOW, if the THF stole from the yagudo after I had slept it, the THF still wouldn't generate enough enimity to take the claim off me after the link+sleep scenario.

See, it was FAR easier for someone to MPK a random person before the update. Now if you want to MPK someone, you REALLY have to put thought, effort, and planning into it. Accidental MPKs will be rare, going forward, though they used to happen all the time if one PT slept a link and another PT went to pull it but didn't actually do enough to pull the sleeping monster OFF the PT that slept them.

I don't see why everyone is complaining. It's a GOOD thing. It seems to me that the primary complaint is "Well, you can still MPK if you do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this."

Yeah, but before, you didn't HAVE to do all that to MPK. If people want to abuse the game badly enough, they will always find a way to do it. THIS change prevents people from ACCIDENTALLY MPKing others, and it also removes a whole lot of that HNM claim drama stuff.