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  • Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)


    http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/topics/060428.html
    In the version update news released on April 17, there was a brief explanation of the changes made to claiming monsters. We would now like to expand upon that explanation to give players a concrete idea of how the process of claiming monsters has been altered.

    To state things clearly, only the conditions for “claiming” a monster have been changed--the process through which a monster chooses a target based on enmity remains the same.

    ************************************************************

    Example
    Player A is fighting two monsters, M1 and M2, and has generated enmity from both creatures. However, since Player A can only claim one monster at a time, let us assume he currently has a claim on M1. The second monster, M2, is free to be attacked by any other player.

    Now Player B appears and begins to attack M2.

    Player B has begun to generate enmity from M2, but as long as the enmity generated by Player A remains greater, M2 will continue to attack Player A. And since Player A still maintains greater enmity, Player B cannot claim M2. (This is the main change that was made in the recent version update. Previously, Player B would immediately claim M2 regardless of the amount of enmity.)

    Player B continues to attack M2, eventually generating enough enmity to override the enmity held by Player A. Now M2 turns to attack Player B. And since M2 has switched its target to Player B, Player B now claims the monster.

    * The following line has been removed from the version update news to help avoid any confusion: “Accordingly, players will no longer be attacked by monsters that they themselves are unable to attack.”

    ************************************************************

    While this change prevents certain instances of MPK, it is still possible for a player to become the target of a monster he does not have a claim on. Consider the following situations.

    Situation 1

    Player A has claimed monster M and is being assisted by Player B (not in Player A’s party).
    Player B generates enmity from M by curing Player A. If the enmity generated by Player B overrides the enmity generated by Player A, the monster will move to attack Player B, while still being claimed by Player A. Player B will be unable to attack M.

    To prevent this from happening, Player B must moderate his curing assistance, or Player A must somehow generate more enmity from M through attacks or abilities.
    It is also possible for Player B to join Player A’s party, or for Player A to choose Call For Help, so that Player B no longer has to suffer a one-sided battle with M.

    Situation 2

    Player C has claimed monster M. Player C then loses his claim on M by disengaging from battle or by putting too much distance between them.
    While M is unclaimed, Player D appears. Player D manages to claim M by generating more enmity than Player C. At this point, M holds enmity towards both Player C and Player D.

    Although M is now claimed by Player D, it is still possible for Player C to perform an action that will generate more enmity than Player D. Should this occur, M will then move to attack Player C while still being claimed by Player D. M will continue to attack Player C as long as Player C maintains the greater amount of enmity. However, Player C is unable to attack M.

    To prevent this situation from happening, Player C must take care not to lose his claim on M. After Player D has claimed M in the above situation, Player C cannot reclaim M no matter how much enmity he generates, unless Player D chooses to disengage from battle.

    ************************************************************

    This change was implemented to help reduce the instances of MPK, and we hope the above explanation helps players to avoid finding themselves in similar situations.

    Thanks Yyg!

  • #2
    Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

    Well the Example made things more clear.

    But then Situation 1 and Situation 2 just confused me again.

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    • #3
      Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

      i guessing this sorta affects pling somewhat or claiming nms

      imagine a thf is low on hp and a pld cures him taking the mob the thf already attacked would he get claim for bigger hate?

      the /assist off and on will be very useful in these situations it seems

      Double Post Edited:
      nvm read it again and the thf would keep claim but most likely he wont have his daggers out and if he does have assist on then he will lose claim wow SE doesn't seem much different at least your trying tho

      lets see some BST IMPROVEMENTS AND SMN!!!
      Last edited by Khidir; 04-28-2006, 08:49 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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      • #4
        Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

        Situation 1 is your standard PL-ing scenario. It also fixes the typical, cure bomb, steal hate+claim scenario.

        Situation 2 is a bit more obscure. Basically, (i think) it is saying that if M goes yellow, D can now start doing stuff (spells and attack) to draw enmity. If D can trump C, M will attack D and D will get claim. C and try to pull enmity (spells), and might succeed in getting M to attack him, but D will still maintain claim.

        in the end:
        1. Actions on a yellow mob will not give you automatic claim, you have to trump the hate list first.
        2. No matter how much hate you get from a purple mob, you will not get claim (even if it starts bashing your head in).

        Thanks Yyg!

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        • #5
          Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

          nice explanation to explain SE's explanation, which while explaining the new mpk measures, failed to explain much in their explanation.

          /pokes her own eyes out
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          • #6
            Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

            is it me or does this not change much?

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            • #7
              Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

              A couple of nights ago while I was futilely trying to learn pollen, my hp dropped to 20, and a level 5 rdm cured me. I lost aggro however the mob's name was still red. The RDM ran away from me and the bee followed. After a certain distance the bee's name changed to yellow and I disengaged. The bee is now her mob. Whether or not she got exp from it I do not know.

              In any case, this seems like what will happen and occur when other people try to cure you while you are trying to learn a BLU magic ability. Take care to turn on /blockaid if you think you can survive most mob attacks while trying to learn abilities and that you don't lose your hate.
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              • #8
                Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                Originally posted by Omniblast
                A couple of nights ago while I was futilely trying to learn pollen, my hp dropped to 20, and a level 5 rdm cured me. I lost aggro however the mob's name was still red. The RDM ran away from me and the bee followed. After a certain distance the bee's name changed to yellow and I disengaged. The bee is now her mob. Whether or not she got exp from it I do not know.

                In any case, this seems like what will happen and occur when other people try to cure you while you are trying to learn a BLU magic ability. Take care to turn on /blockaid if you think you can survive most mob attacks while trying to learn abilities and that you don't lose your hate.
                Way off topic there Omniblast. The situation you described is normal, if a player is able to get the mob to chase them and they train it out far enough you will always disengage and then claim of the mob is lost.

                What they were talking about was trying to figure out what changed with what SE was talking about on hate and claim doing now.


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                • #9
                  Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                  Oh... hmm Then I have no idea. I thought that was part of it.

                  Isn't this one of those instances where say the monster is already claimed (purple) and then it goes to attack someone else who see is as purple and can't claim it even though they have already taken enough hate from the group that was originally on it?

                  When People use to MPK that way where you couldn't fight back against the monster, where they use it to mpk you in that manner. ???
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                  • #10
                    Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                    Lets use King Behemoth as an example, as we just know this is /the/ endgame drama. So lets say an LS is diligently fighting KB and has it down to 50%, then another LS comes in and provokes it. The second LS will not get the claim unless they are able to pull hate off the kiters.

                    Another example, your pt is fighting a mob, another mob links. The brd sleeps the link and the tank vokes it. Mr puller from the other group comes along and decides to pull your selpt mob with a boomerang generating nearly 0 hate. Normally when the mob wakes it will proceed to rape your PT as you dont have claim and have no way to sleep it. Under this patch the mob will stay yellow unless the other party generates enough hate to actually get the mob to follow them.
                    Calin - Ragnarok

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                    • #11
                      Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                      Originally posted by ClydeArrowny
                      Lets use King Behemoth as an example, as we just know this is /the/ endgame drama. So lets say an LS is diligently fighting KB and has it down to 50%, then another LS comes in and provokes it. The second LS will not get the claim unless they are able to pull hate off the kiters.

                      Another example, your pt is fighting a mob, another mob links. The brd sleeps the link and the tank vokes it. Mr puller from the other group comes along and decides to pull your selpt mob with a boomerang generating nearly 0 hate. Normally when the mob wakes it will proceed to rape your PT as you dont have claim and have no way to sleep it. Under this patch the mob will stay yellow unless the other party generates enough hate to actually get the mob to follow them.
                      Ah! That makes much more sense than SE's garbled examples...
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                      • #12
                        Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                        There is a catch in the design though if the text is right. The catch goes like this:

                        Player A fight Crawler
                        Player A flees from Crawler or disengages Crawler
                        Player B fights Crawler
                        Player A is unable to reclaim Crawler even if hate exceeds the hate on Player B
                        Player A exceeds the hate Crawler will not become claimed to Player A but Crawler will attack Player A

                        The bad part to this one say your party is fighting a mob you sleep it to recover and had disengaged. Mob is currently unclaimed but if someone else tries to claim the mob they have to exceed your hate threashold first, if they succeed nothing you do can get the mob back.

                        From the sound of it this is going to create scenario's were a team will attempt to steal the mob from you, if a condition occurs were you are unable to continue the fight with the mob and party has to disengage and you sleep it. If another party comes and attacks the mob they mob will remain yellow, it will start attack your party in while then you have the choice to engage it or try to sleep it again.

                        The point is though while the mob has more hate to you then it does the other party the other party can attack it and the mob will come for you, but you'll be able to sleep, fight it, or whatever unless because it isn't immediatly claimed to other party until they exceed your hate threashold. The design is crappy in my opinion because now all they have to do is get it just right to a point that they just barely exceed your parties threshold and then let it drop back under. This ends up putting the mob back on your party and no matter what your party does you are not allowed to take claim.

                        So the way I can see this being used against people is a BLM (or DRG) claiming hate from a party and ultimatly claiming the mob, with a weak damage dealer hitting to add him under the hate list the original party had. Them BLM warps (or DRG does Super Jump) and this whole claim design is screwed, because now the other party just put hate past original party to claim then sheaded the large portion of it away. It then forces the orginal party to end up in the same situation as before this change.

                        EDIT:

                        Well not entirely crappy, but the design creates more potential stuff you can do and added risks to them...


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                        • #13
                          Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                          Originally posted by Khidir
                          lets see some BST IMPROVEMENTS AND SMN!!!
                          Actually this should help BSTs out quite alot. If someone can't can't claim a mob without generating more emnity than the mobs current target then it should help BSTs to be able to change pets without having a mob stolen in between. Although the BST will need to generate enough emnity to be able to keep it. It could be a tough balance.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                            So the way I can see this being used against people is a BLM (or DRG) claiming hate from a party and ultimatly claiming the mob, with a weak damage dealer hitting to add him under the hate list the original party had. Them BLM warps (or DRG does Super Jump) and this whole claim design is screwed, because now the other party just put hate past original party to claim then sheaded the large portion of it away. It then forces the orginal party to end up in the same situation as before this change.
                            This could already be done in the past. This patch just makes it harder to do the same as you must exceed the person's current enmity to claim it. The mobs still go yellow as normal and stay claimed as normal. The only difference is it is harder to steal claim off of a mob which already had a hate table established. It may not be a perfect solution, but I am very happy with what they did. An improvement is still an improvement.
                            Calin - Ragnarok

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                            • #15
                              Re: Monsters and Enmity(04/28/2006)

                              Originally posted by Kafeen
                              Actually this should help BSTs out quite alot. If someone can't can't claim a mob without generating more emnity than the mobs current target then it should help BSTs to be able to change pets without having a mob stolen in between. Although the BST will need to generate enough emnity to be able to keep it. It could be a tough balance.
                              Never thought of it that way Kaf.

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