HM Titan - Second Tank

[Aeni]

So umm ... I go into DF and there's already a well geared Warrior tank in there. Of course, I turn Defiance off and go DPS ... but while there is good DPS, it isn't enough to break the Heart. And I know that we probably could get through it if I wasn't there (i.e., a pre-made group with 1 tank 4 dps 3 healers or 1 tank 5 dps 2 healers)

What is the strategy as a tank queuing up for HM Titan? Do I make the effort and secure myself some DPS gear to throw on in the event that I (due to the fact that I've not yet broken ilvl60) have to be *that* guy, or do I just throw my hands up and don't bother using the DF for this?

[Firewind]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

Never use the DF for HM and EM Primals. You're just asking for it. They are cesspools of toxic abuse.

And a 2 tank setup with one tank in DD Stance is fine. The DPS should be good enough anyway. As a rule of thumb, if you can't clear the heart without a LB the group won't have the DPS to survive the Tumults anyway. What is likely happening is that the Healers aren't switching to cleric stance it that phase, and the DDs blew their Offensive Cooldowns before the Heart Phase.

There is no DPS race before Phase 5, so all priority should go to simply staying alive until the Heart Phase.

I've also done Titan with a 3 healer setup. It's pretty simple since two healers can throw up Cleric stance to contribute DPS and dance when Raid healing is needed, while leaving the tank healing to the third one.

Pros of a 2 Tank Setup:

• If the main tank goes down it isn't a wipe
• If the second tank is a Warrior, the DPS loss isn't bad at all, plus WARs are easy to keep up
• Extra Hallowed Groud if going 2xPLD

Cons of 2 Tank Setup:

• Let's face it, losing the DPS provided by a BRD or SMN is pretty significant even if it's not required
• Extra melee classes means that dropping plumes in P5 is painful when that melee inevitably tunnelvisions

Pros of a 1 Tank, 2 Healers Setup:

• Highest burst and sustained DPS
• An All ranged party makes Phase 5 really easy since you just have everyone form a line behind Titan for plumes
• If you have enough overgeared people you can easily skip entire phases
• You can always save the LB for P5 for an Lv3 MNK LB or Lv3 Healer LB
• Most efficient setup for Farming the fight.
• Potentially multiple Eye for an Eye and Virus for P5 if you bring BLMs or SMNs.

Cons of a 1 Tank, 2 Healers Setup

• Puts most pressure on the healers. If you lose a healer and the remaining healer is either a SCH with bad micro or undergeared it's a wipe.
• Losing a DD before the Heart Phase is a wipe too
• If you require the LB to clear the heart in this setup then just don't bother.
• Requires the DDs to be in at least full iLv70 gear to survive the later Tumults.
• Requires a WHM.

Pros of a 3 Healer Setup:

• If you lose a Healer it doesn't matter
• It gives a great chance for healers to practise the importance of Stance Dancing
• You don't actually lose that much overall DPS since you can potentially have both Eos and Selene
• BRD is less vital in this setup, though you will still want one if you have DRGs, BLMs and SMNs in the party.

Cons of a 3 Healer Setup

• Let's face it, losing the DPS provided by a BRD or SMN is pretty significant even if it's not required
• It basically gives a free carry to undergeared and unskilled players
• Does often cause people to get complacent.
• The LB charges a lot more slowly
• Bad WHMs will cause massive aggro issues

[Malacite]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

Rule #1) Don't random DF Titan unless you have the Devil's luck. It's only ever worked out for me once or twice and I mean that as in literal attempts, not days attempting it.

Rule #2) See rule #1



If you absolutely have to though, at least have a STR set ready. WAR is still capable of dealing a decent chunk of dps if you have a full set of STR accessories and have dumped all your bonus pool into STR like I have (most Tanks prefer VIT but honestly I feel STR is far more rewarding over a couple hundred more HP.)

[Firewind]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

You want VIT all the way or your healer will hate you. Stoneskin and Lustrate are based on percentage of HP. It's why it is far easier to keep a WAR up than it is to keep a PLD up as a SCH. Aldolquim and Embrace (you should have Embrace on a Keybind at all time as a SCH or reroll WHM) followed up by a Lustrate is an incredibly powerful burst healing combo that is sadly only really efficient to use on a WAR. It gets even more crazy with Rouse and Eos' heal buff.

You tend to have spam Lustrate on a PLD in similar "OHSHI-" moments because of how spiky they are. I've lost count of the number of PLDs I've lost due to RNG making Lustrate worthless because the damage they take is so inconsistent.

Honestly the main reason to take a PLD over a WAR is Spirits Within, which a SCH can cover for anyway with Selene, or you could just take another BRD, they're dime a dozen anyway. There's really no other reason XD

Seriously though if I see a WAR gunning for STR, I just leave the party. You want that big HP pool because of all of the Damage Mitigation % buffs and a lot of things running off % of HP, giving them excellent synergy with a high VIT War. I've seen a Lallafel WAR pop the +HP CD, hit 10k HP and literally take no damage for the rest of the fight in Haukke HM, which meant I could sit in Cleric Stance, switch Selene to Automatic Stance and start nuking. The Points into STR War would never be able to pull that off.

[Malacite]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

That's your opinion. I side with the +STR people who prefer dishing out more damage, taking less on block/parry and generating more hate. It's a tradeoff.

WAR clearly benefits more from +VIT than PLD does because of Defiance but I still really like the extra STR.

[Aeni]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

Thank you both. I'm just having a rough time in DF because I get all the comments, like, "hey, guess who's NOT going to main tank this", and "too bad there isn't a higher bar for this ride". It gets worse when I go with my healer friend, because even if she's capable, due to low HP totals, she gets most of the abuse thrown at her (even if the other well geared healer dies to something stupid like Avalanche at the beginning of the fight)

And there's so much trolls even in low level roulettes. I just got out of Halatali and this healer not only stays in Cleric Stance during that big pull with the pythons, but he's busy DPS'ing, pulling packs ahead of me, and pulling bosses when no one signals they're ready. The weekends seem to bring out the worst in DF.

[Firewind]

Re: HM Titan - Second Tank

And now you know why I no longer play during weekends.