XIV combat mechanics and formulas

[Taskmage]

Seiken Valk of the Aegis server did some extensive testing of damage and enmity stats. It's all on his blog at the Lodestone and also in this Reddit post, whichever you find easier to read. It's somewhat out of order in the Reddit post, but it's all in one place and the formatting is better.

Long story short, everything is about a million times easier to understand in XIV than in XI. Return on stat increases seems to be linear, i.e. adding a point of strength will increase your damage by the same amount whether you're starting at 50 str or 350 str. Level difference with the target doesn't seem to be a factor and no caps have been found. Determination appears to have roughly half the effect of strength on melee damage, in exchange for its versatility in also subbing in for dex, int, and mnd on their respective effects.

Gladiator's enmity modifying abilities seem to simply double the amount of enmity that an action would usually generate. One Savage Blade is roughly equal in enmity to two Riot Blades, which deal the same damage, and Shield Oath makes one Flash equal to two without. Provoke sets your enmity level equal to the person at the top of the hate list, meaning if someone takes hate off of you, Provoke lets you instantly catch up.

Thank goodness for a system that doesn't require spreadsheets or multivariable equations to figure out what pants to wear.

[cidbahamut]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

Thank goodness for a system that doesn't require spreadsheets or multivariable equations to figure out what pants to wear.

But that was the whole appeal...

[Taskmage]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

It really wasn't.

[cidbahamut]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

I thought it kept things interesting. One dimensional linear progression is boring. I really believe one of FFXI's greatest strengths was that the gear progression was anything but linear.

[Malacite]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

Seiken Valk of the Aegis server did some extensive testing of damage and enmity stats. It's all on his blog at the Lodestone and also in this Reddit post, whichever you find easier to read. It's somewhat out of order in the Reddit post, but it's all in one place and the formatting is better.

Long story short, everything is about a million times easier to understand in XIV than in XI. Return on stat increases seems to be linear, i.e. adding a point of strength will increase your damage by the same amount whether you're starting at 50 str or 350 str. Level difference with the target doesn't seem to be a factor and no caps have been found. Determination appears to have roughly half the effect of strength on melee damage, in exchange for its versatility in also subbing in for dex, int, and mnd on their respective effects.

Gladiator's enmity modifying abilities seem to simply double the amount of enmity that an action would usually generate. One Savage Blade is roughly equal in enmity to two Riot Blades, which deal the same damage, and Shield Oath makes one Flash equal to two without. Provoke sets your enmity level equal to the person at the top of the hate list, meaning if someone takes hate off of you, Provoke lets you instantly catch up.

Thank goodness for a system that doesn't require spreadsheets or multivariable equations to figure out what pants to wear.

This is a HUGE change from 1.23, holy shit - not to mention an extremely important one - this means as long as you have a back up tank, or the main tank has provoke and is raised it's no longer an automatic wipe vs NMs like Ifrit anymore.

[Taskmage]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

I like optimization puzzles as much as the next red mage, but the unnecessarily arcane system that FFXI had only divided the playerbase between the confused and the informed. For the people who actually understood the system (years later when we finally figured out what the system was) there was still only one right way to gear. It's not as if the multitude of mods actually supported different styles of play. When it came down to it, performance between two sets could be objectively measured, and one would turn out more damage. With a less convoluted stat system, people can excel at their jobs by simply knowing how to use them well, which is where the focus should be. Actual gameplay.

[Aeni]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

Provoke in ARR will work like it does in WoW. You essentially leapfrog the threat meters with it's use, but must continue to generate threat to keep up, or you'll end up losing it. It's functionally similar and the whole system seems to be on par with WoW 4.0+ (Blizzard essentially "simplified" stats in Cataclysm).

The only difference is that WoW now features Vengeance, which is an aura-like application to the entire raid zone, whereby Tank's dps is automatically scaled to the levels that it needs to be in order to balance off threat generation gap between tanks and dps. SE may resort to that down the road but right now the numbers seem to be adequate enough.

[Malacite]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

Speaking of XI, apparently one of the things they're considering now is making all the other DD's defense on par with PLD. Dunno wtf that's about...


Yay for simplified mechanics. I like having a variety of complex stuff, so long as the principals behind them are simple. For example, in Grandia you can mix different elements together to get new spells, but there's nothing overly complicated about the process.


I can't help but wonder now then, if the ratios have changed for Block & Parry with relation to DEX. In 1.23, boosting DEX for either of those was utterly pointless as Kanican found out through extensive research. I still maintain that STR is probably the better choice, but it'd be interesting to see. I always rather hated how as a PLD, boosting DEX (for your shield) or MND (for healing) just wasn't that great (I think most people did VIT and MND, though I preferred STR & VIT).

I feel like VIT needs to give at least 10, maybe 12 max HP per point to really stay competitive with STR. Killing the enemy faster, taking less damage (blocks) and generating more hate pretty much trumps a few extra HP no contest. I'm kinda curious now to see how Holy Succor works with the new system and if MND is viable or not.

[DakAttack]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

The only difference is that WoW now features Vengeance, which is an aura-like application to the entire raid zone, whereby Tank's dps is automatically scaled to the levels that it needs to be in order to balance off threat generation gap between tanks and dps. SE may resort to that down the road but right now the numbers seem to be adequate enough.

Never was there a greater way to make stats more meaningless. Unfortunately, that was par for the course. WoW was a puzzle of meaningless pieces.

[Firewind]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

I thought it kept things interesting. One dimensional linear progression is boring. I really believe one of FFXI's greatest strengths was that the gear progression was anything but linear.

Ignore this. He's just butthurt that he can't keep his go faster pants on.

[cidbahamut]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

More like I'm upset that I won't be able to code state based rule sets for my go-faster boots that only work in sandstorms. That was definitely one of my better accomplishments.

Seriously though, there is merit to be had in a system that uses mechanics that are more complex than a flat linear progression where the only thing that matters is if that one relevant number is lower or higher than what you currently have equipped. It certainly doesn't have as broad an appeal, but that doesn't make it inherently bad.

[Taskmage]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

It's important that stats facilitate meaningful choices, but also important that they make intuitive sense to the players. The balancing act between accuracy, haste, and attack is something of a loss, but not that much of a loss since people are still going to have to decide on optimal combinations of accuracy, determination, critical chance, and (provided SE adjusts it to bring it more on par) spell/skill speed. That players will no longer have to reverse engineer mobs stats and consult a table to figure out correct levels of STR/attack is a major gain, in my opinion.

[Etra]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

I play video games to unwind and not have to think like a nuclear physicist. I'm not saying I want faceroll easy content, but I don't want a 2" thick binder for each piece of gear detailing when the best time to use said gear is.

[Mezlo]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

Thank goodness for a system that doesn't require spreadsheets or multivariable equations to figure out what pants to wear.

You know you just made Armando cry, right???

[Taskmage]

Re: XIV combat mechanics and formulas

You know you just made Armando cry, right???

I wonder. No doubt Armando enjoys analyzing systems, but I doubt even he started playing FFXI because he saw an opportunity to apply algebra. Didn't we all come here for the story, the atmosphere, and to triumph over difficult situations with skill and perseverance? Moreover, Armando is equally apt at innovating play in ways that can't be expressed as the solution to an equation, such as using short-range blue magic from outside of melee range, and iirc he was the only person on the forum to give pld/rdm exp tanking a serious go. Math is just what people think of him for because for the most part we're too lazy to do it ourselves and rely on him for it.