Area overview (Alpha)

[jenova_9]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

I wonder if napkins can be crafted, mew? Then ninjas could drop them, and the mobs would slip, and party can land critical hits while they are dazed.

[Aeni]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Things like that to make things interesting. It would also help if crafting was slower to level up but way more fun to play, rather than being yet another time sink that forces you to craft in order to level up your real jobs like it was originally.


So... anything like this implemented for crafters in ARR by any chance? <_<;

Read my response above. No one is forcing you to take up crafting. It is entirely optional. With that said, at least for the first 20 levels, money and equipment is not an issue, at least in Alpha.

[Firewind]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

I don't see why you *need* to craft for ammo as an archer. Just buy it? Ask a friend to make it? Go directly to craftsmen and hopefully get a discount as a "return customer"? It's not archaic ... it's just a different "flavor". I myself didn't have any problem purchasing crafted weapons from the retainers even if I could craft them myself (My BSM was mostly high enough for a good chunk of my GLA leveling)

Yes, people keep saying the same thing, over and over, but they made a horrible mistake in comparing the system to FFXI, where you were basically shaken down for ammo for your archer. However, in FFXIV, with the way that the ARC class worked, you could just get away with low level ammo ... most players did that and didn't really complain.

If you took ammo out of the equation, then you'll need something else for craftsmen to make money. I think you're advocating that crafting should be a side-interest in the game. However, many players beg to differ with you, since quite a few would rather craft than combat, but still be able to participate meaningfully in some ways in either (a) end game or (b) being able to access a lot of the primary content (i.e., story/lore) For example, in 1.0 of FFXIV, I would get a lot of crafting materials just from combat. Craftsmen need to buy these same mats from the combat guys. There's a symbiotic relationship here. If you divorced the classes in such a way as to "make it easy and convenient for a class, say, ARC", then what is the point of a social game? Might as well just turn it into an elaborate single player game.

And then people refuse to invite you to parties, or kick you from parties for using low level ammo, and the game ends up being a single player game with sub fees.

I also really don't think you read my post. At all. I never said that crafting should be a side interest, just that in FFXIV it is boring and archaic in that it is tied to a bunch of tedious and time consuming minigames that you are forced to take part of purely for playing a class that you like. Taking Guild Wars 2 as an example again, crafting is far from a side interest in that game and it is fun. Why is it fun?

1. There are no minigames attached to it and you aren't forced to painstakingly play this minigame every time you want to craft something or gather a material
2. Gathering is tied to the exploration side of the game. I can be out adventuring and come across a cave or grove of trees and gather up the materials, then go and sell them off when I'm done. in FFXIV I would have to go through the tedious and time consuming process of changing class, then gear, then doing the minigame, then changing all of my gear back. Fake longevity at its finest folks.
3. There is actually a recipe list and things you discover are actually saved. In FFXIV you were given them at random and half of the time it was for stuff you would never need or be able to sell.
4. It is possible to experiment with different item combinations to discover things with a very simple to use interface. In FFXIV it was always sluggish and slow and nine times out of ten discoveries would always need stuff made by other crafts
5. I don't have to drop everything to gather something when out in the world
6. I can actually break down useless item drops into crafting materials that I can sell on to crafters alongside the stuff that monsters may have dropped
7. It is not forced on the player for them to be optimal. It is something that you do because it is actually fun want to spend time with it, and not soemthing you spend time with because it is a massive time sink.

You are also completely missing the point about me even mentioning Archer (the class I played in FFXIV). Crafting was not optional at all for that class. You either levelled what you needed to make Arrows or you spent a small fortune on materials or arrows in the Market Wards.

And you missed the point of the post entirely. I was posting why I didn't like crafting in FFXIV and what I would like to see done differently. For me FFXIV's crafting was not engaging or immersive, if anything the minigames shattered immersion for me, and I would spend more time with my laptop open next to my PC staring at guides as to what to do when X, Y and Z happens than I was actually feeling like I was an actual Carpenter or Chef. It was just an massive time sink that was forced on the player that destroyed that sense of exploration and wonder that MMOs have because I would be forever stuck to one set of nodes that the leve would take me to.

Where was the sense of wonder that you get in games like Guild Wars or Minecraft where you stumble across a huge source of the materials you need while out there exploring the game world?

Where was the sense of achievement when you discovered a new recipe while combining and experimenting different things?

Where was the actual incentive as a crafter to actually get out there and explore for materials that FFXI got right all those years ago and even SWTOR got right?

Why do we even need to have Crafting, Gathering and Combat classes being separate anyway? Are people so bad at Roleplaying now that they actually need the visual separation being right there instead of using the one thing that makes roleplaying fun: imagination. It is like offering a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place.

If ARR can capture that again then I'll love the crafting, but for now, the information available to me tells me that not much has really changed in the big picture. I'll still be willing to give it a go to see if I like it but going by just the information I have, I'm going to keep my scepticism for things being truly different until I can get to play with it myself.

[Mezlo]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

I wonder if napkins can be crafted, mew? Then ninjas could drop them, and the mobs would slip, and party can land critical hits while they are dazed.

Banana peels would've been a better J9 mewism. The only time you could slip on a napkin would be if it was dropped on a freshly polished hardwood floor. You'd need the carpenter to make the oak lumber, and assemble the wood flooring, and then an alchemist to make the hard wood polish and polish the wood.

[jenova_9]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Banana peels would've been a better J9 mewism. The only time you could slip on a napkin would be if it was dropped on a freshly polished hardwood floor. You'd need the carpenter to make the oak lumber, and assemble the wood flooring, and then an alchemist to make the hard wood polish and polish the wood.

oh that makes sense, mew. maybe a slip and slide carpet thingy with streaming water? oh well that's too complicated.

[Nandito]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Not too complicated. You'd just need to change the carpenter to a leather worker so he could make the mat, the alchemist could make it slippy, and then you get two Thaumaturge to constantly melt ice and make streaming water, mew!

[Aeni]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

1. There are no minigames attached to it and you aren't forced to painstakingly play this minigame every time you want to craft something or gather a material
2. Gathering is tied to the exploration side of the game. I can be out adventuring and come across a cave or grove of trees and gather up the materials, then go and sell them off when I'm done. in FFXIV I would have to go through the tedious and time consuming process of changing class, then gear, then doing the minigame, then changing all of my gear back. Fake longevity at its finest folks.
3. There is actually a recipe list and things you discover are actually saved. In FFXIV you were given them at random and half of the time it was for stuff you would never need or be able to sell.
4. It is possible to experiment with different item combinations to discover things with a very simple to use interface. In FFXIV it was always sluggish and slow and nine times out of ten discoveries would always need stuff made by other crafts
5. I don't have to drop everything to gather something when out in the world
6. I can actually break down useless item drops into crafting materials that I can sell on to crafters alongside the stuff that monsters may have dropped
7. It is not forced on the player for them to be optimal. It is something that you do because it is actually fun want to spend time with it, and not soemthing you spend time with because it is a massive time sink.

Can you elaborate on what this mini-game is? Throwing out some random ideologies that you've created for yourself is the best way to have people tune you out. I need to understand this mini-game you are talking about.

Your experience sounds like it came out of the early part of FFXIV, where Tanaka-san's influence was at it's greatest. FYI, that is the FFXI taint I was railing about, but everyone thought I was a loon and then suggested that MOAR FFXI would fix it. I don't think people even knew that Tanaka-san was responsible for the travesty that was FFXI...

Towards the end of FFXIV, going into ARR Alpha, much of what you've outlined (as far as I can tell; I still don't know wtf this mini-game is about) were either addressed, changed or promised to be completely taken out of the game. I can't give you much specifics from Alpha ARR, but suffice to say, the system has changed a lot, for the most part.

Now, I have a few words about Guild Wars 2. From what you've described, since I haven't played the game, it's basically taking enchanting from WoW (the disenchanting aspects), broadening the resulting materials to encompass all crafting categories, and then having everyone with this grand ability across the board.

Yeah ... longevity indeed. This game is going to flop, economically, in less than a year.

Going back to Role Playing Games in general, the systems implemented are usually a combination of compromises in order to not only meet the needs of players, but to also strengthen the economy and provide incentives for a social fabric. Many games have problems with this, due to either game balance problems or not having the right level of social interactions within the system (either too dependent on "crowd sourcing" or too married to ego or self)

However, the object of MMORPG is to be able to rely on others, as that is the focal point of the entire system. To do any less is to promote a single-player experience, which is fine, but outside of the scope of an MMO title.

Of course, SE could also have some title to broker that intermediary space, but then look how Diablo III turned out.

You are also completely missing the point about me even mentioning Archer (the class I played in FFXIV). Crafting was not optional at all for that class. You either levelled what you needed to make Arrows or you spent a small fortune on materials or arrows in the Market Wards.

Okay, maybe it's just my experience, but I had no problems churning out 10 million gils, way more than what is needed to level an Archer, without leveling CRP to a level beyond "beginning" and mostly focused on leveling my GLA AND putting in less than 10 hrs a week average in a whole year.

[Aeni]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

For Malacite ... our resident closet perv.

[Malacite]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

[Fliegar]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Would it be breaking the NDA to show off my Miqo'te's lacy pink undies?

[Malacite]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Yes. SE explicitly states to not post any images outside of the alpha forums.

I'm not going to nark on anyone here, but I'm not risking it either until that NDA is lifted.

[Aeni]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Would it be breaking the NDA to show off my Miqo'te's lacy pink undies?

Nah ... they can't prove you pulled it from Alpha, considering that you could've gotten that same effect in 1.0 through Gulkeeva's mods ... rofl.

[Fliegar]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Ah... Good ol' Gulkeeva.

Also, I had the pleasure of meeting Gulkeeva on Palamecia when I started. Never thought I'd have the chance.

Edit: Didn't want to give the impression that I was violating any En-Dee-Eh's, so I removed the picture all the same. Any other Miqo'te has an equally awesome bum.

[Malacite]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

~ . ~

[Fliegar]

Re: Area overview (Alpha)

Can't wait for it to actually be released. I loved the concept of FFXIV, but I just couldn't really get into the initial version for longer than a few months. Even then, I had college and work so I never made it much farther than level 30, plus a Miqo'te alt that I ran around on.