25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

[Firewind]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I'm going to make some educational speculation about planned classes too. I mean Musketeer is in the data and we all know that musketeers wear hats with feathers in them. So therefore the class will be called "Featherhead"

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

@ Mal

The .dat is in there but don't forget, that was a Tanaka roadmap it was attached to. Whether or not Yoshi-P will continue to use it or not, that depends entirely on their roadmap for 2.0 and subsequent expansions. I wouldn't use pre-2.0 .dats to base any assumptions.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Oh I know. But so far Yoshi's made good on things.

Plus it's just a fitting class to attach NIN to don't you think? Wonder if they'll keep "Shepard" for BST too lol.

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Oh I know. But so far Yoshi's made good on things.

Plus it's just a fitting class to attach NIN to don't you think? Wonder if they'll keep "Shepard" for BST too lol.

The problem is you don't want too many classes. You can theoretically create (using the 1-2 pairing) more than the number of total jobs in FFXI with just what we have now. Having additional classes is overkill and NOT NEEDED. Having too many classes will not only overly complicate the job system, but produce too many "specialized" pairings. So, if you decided you want physical job Z instead of physical job F, despite the fact you've already leveled 4 physical classes to 50, you would need to raise another 2 more just to make the switch. To me, that is dumb.

[Etra]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Or just get rid of classes since the class+job combo is a shit idea.

Just saying.

[Raydeus]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Or just get rid of classes since the class+job combo is a shit idea.

Just saying.

You are right, but you can't. If you do that you take the game's FF identity in a swift stroke. Jobs, or more precisely AFs are the pillar upon which character identity rests in these games. Be it XI or XIV or VIII, even GF junction or materia or <insert gameplay trait> doesn't take away the fact that classes are extremely important in a Final Fantasy game.

So while it would make sense from a gameplay point of view (it would work much better), the lack of AF would really upset most players expecting to see the FF spirit here.

But not everything is lost, one of the very few things Tanaka's XIV did right was the concept of the armory system (after some YoshiP refinements of course.) Where your main class could be customized with unlocked abilities and spells. That provided a ton of flexibility without sacrificing class identity.

This is also why I lost interest in XIV after I got a Job, as you point out the restrictions imposed by the use of a rigid job system after being so used to play THM completely killed the game for me (along with the forced party wall you hit after you get to the later missions), so there needs to be a balance between flexibility and class identity or 2.0 risks running into the same wall XI and end game 1.0 did.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

The problem is you don't want too many classes. You can theoretically create (using the 1-2 pairing) more than the number of total jobs in FFXI with just what we have now. Having additional classes is overkill and NOT NEEDED. Having too many classes will not only overly complicate the job system, but produce too many "specialized" pairings. So, if you decided you want physical job Z instead of physical job F, despite the fact you've already leveled 4 physical classes to 50, you would need to raise another 2 more just to make the switch. To me, that is dumb.

I agree, and it's part of the beauty of the armory system - however SE does need to change the bonus points system to accommodate this. For example, if MRD becomes the base for DRK, it'll probably be STR and INT like PUG - so I'd want to remove those points in VIT and put them into INT. We should have separate bonus points for classes & jobs.

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I agree, and it's part of the beauty of the armory system - however SE does need to change the bonus points system to accommodate this. For example, if MRD becomes the base for DRK, it'll probably be STR and INT like PUG - so I'd want to remove those points in VIT and put them into INT. We should have separate bonus points for classes & jobs.

Which is why I'm saying adding in an assassination class in order to accomodate just one job (Ninja) is not efficient. If they also decided to throw in Thief, J9 and Pedophiler jobs, then it makes it worth player's time in leveling that class, since it can be a foundation for more than just one job.

I still think Samurai and Ninja would be better a pairing off of MRD and PGL. Or let GLA dual-wield (hey, they have dagger and 1hd-sword proficiency) and then they can become a foundation for others (e.g., new jobs based on a combination of THREE classes) So you can get something like PGL + GLA + LNC and come up with the Jet Li job class.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

With NIN's case it's not just about the weapon, but also the base skills. The 5 quested abilities aren't enough for a job like Ninja, so a base class is somewhat necessary (and not to mention dual-wield).

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

With NIN's case it's not just about the weapon, but also the base skills. The 5 quested abilities aren't enough for a job like Ninja, so a base class is somewhat necessary (and not to mention dual-wield).

What? Pugilist and Marauder has enough for both Sam and Nin. Not sure what you're thinking of, but try to erase your memories of FFXI ... I think that's hard for players to do.

-Passive Traits will be available through level + equipping the job icon.
-Additional spells available post 30 through leveling (see above)
-Quests will be re-done in 2.0 ... so the "limit to 5" makes no sense.

[jenova_9]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Like Summoner is unlocked through Arcanist, I think Ninja will be unlocked through Assassin or what that data table said, mew. That seems to be the pattern they are going with new 2.0 classes and stuff.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I'm saying the sort of base skills an Assassin class would have would be more ideal for NIN, with the NIN job adding extra spells/abilities etc. Really don't want to see NIN get pidgeonholed into tanking again as opposed to a stealthy DD/enfeebler.


Plus they've already gone with Arcanist - another job that was in the .dats forever (and the guild has been in LL from day 1)

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I'm saying the sort of base skills an Assassin class would have would be more ideal for NIN, with the NIN job adding extra spells/abilities etc. Really don't want to see NIN get pidgeonholed into tanking again as opposed to a stealthy DD/enfeebler.


Plus they've already gone with Arcanist - another job that was in the .dats forever (and the guild has been in LL from day 1)

You seem to conveniently forget that the Arcanist was promised by Tanaka-san. And Yoshi-P decided not to do that since they were planning it for 2.0. Why? Because there were only 2 classes in the Magic category, whereas you had 5 in the Physical. That imbalance produced a lot of issues, especially when considering jobs that would stem from them. The reason why they are not bothering to "remove" physical classes for 2.0 is the fact that, again, promises were made (Yoshi-P said, "we're not wiping the slate clean for class/job levels")

So, I do not expect more physical classes being implemented without them adding another magic class (to bring it to 4) Remember, there are still a lot of "magical" jobs they could implement, like Blue Mage, Red Mage and Dark Knight, so having a balanced group of classes to work with would make more sense than to continually add to just one category and run up into some obstacle down the road.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

What does any of that have to do with Arcanist being in the .dats for ages? We knew it was a mage all along too. I'm just saying that they've so far stuck with using stuff that was already in the .dats, including most of the jobs. And Yoshi pretty much said that after Arcanist SAM & NIN are the next priority. PUG has *some* skills that would be useful for NIN but not enough.


It would be far better to take Assassin and build NIN around it. Give most of the base spells and abilities to it, and then throw on NIN to specialize it further.

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

What does any of that have to do with Arcanist being in the .dats for ages? We knew it was a mage all along too. I'm just saying that they've so far stuck with using stuff that was already in the .dats, including most of the jobs. And Yoshi pretty much said that after Arcanist SAM & NIN are the next priority. PUG has *some* skills that would be useful for NIN but not enough.


It would be far better to take Assassin and build NIN around it. Give most of the base spells and abilities to it, and then throw on NIN to specialize it further.

Why do they need to use ANYTHING from the .dats? I'm telling you ... .dats doesn't mean SHIT. There were shit in .dats in WoW from release through 3 expansions that didn't see the light of day. Does that mean Blizzard is planning to use them? NO. It could just be that it was a lot easier to leave in the game than take out, mostly because we all know bugs happen every single time someone adds or deletes to codes and tables. Especially in a massive software package like MMOs (6-10 GB worth of data)

Arcanist was around because Tanaka-san promised it would be in the game. That much was certain: they knew there weren't enough magic classes and players were griping about it even in Alpha. The issues with implementing it pre-2.0 were based on Yoshi-P's decision that was mostly likely determined from (a) needing something new and shiny for 2.0 and (b) the expense and precious development time that would've been taken away from ARR pre-2.0

You're so fucking fixated on the fact that you would require something from some "undocumented data mining" in order to create something new that this discussion is going nowhere. I've already suggested numerous ways SE could handle additional jobs without needing to add additional physical classes but whatever. Keep on thinking we'll end up with 10 classes and keep dreaming that somehow Yoshi-P thinks having 100 jobs would be an awesome idea.