25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

But even then spears were more widely use purely because they were cheap and easy to replace unlike a sword and it is easier to train people to be competent with a spear than a glaive or halberd.

The primary reason why spears/pikes were found common, especially from the Ashikaga bafuku and on down (maybe as far back as the Kamakura bafuku) was because of horse mounted samurai. I thought this was also a common reason for the abundance of such weapons in medieval Europe - to counter horse mounted knights. When samurai sat up on their horses, the distance between them and those on the ground increased greatly, so in order to "reach" the samurai, foot soldiers would need a weapon of such length (same goes for the samurai, but their role was strictly of that to reach other mounted samurai quicker and fought with their swords) Eventually, better blades and implementations were fitted to cut through the armor and provide a more lethal stopping force.

I have no doubt that the ease of training for women and teenagers were also an important factor, but they were not the main factors. And the arms were not light ... it would be far more effective for women to have a tantou on hand (for seppukku so as not to be defiled by the enemy ... or for "backstabbing when captured" in close proximity of effective leaders) than be unwieldy and useless with a large naginata. And more trained women would use a kodachi rather than a katana, especially in close quarters combat where space is limited and movement restricted.

[Mezlo]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

So Aeni wins?

[Raydeus]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Ray, what anime is this from?

Maria†Holic


And I'm very sad to report that's actually a dude.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I might have the wrong thing in mind, but I thought the naginata was a standard spear and not a lance? Spears are primarily used not just because they're cheap, but because of the reach and superior stopping power they employ - the force from a good trust of a spear is far more efficient than hacking and slashing with a sword. And you're 100% right about the tanto blade. Don't forget the Nodachi either, though those were extremely rare as while they were quite powerful swords, they were also terribly unwieldly (nothing quite like Sephiroth's masamune but still damn long). They were more or less the JP equivalent of a claymore, though not quite as impressive in terms of stopping power (Claymores were intended to for use against full plate mail afterall and samurai never wore armor that thick or bulky).


I would love to see NIN get a Kusari-gama this time around as well, and not just katana. Shuriken had damn well better be affordable this time as well. Oh, and please, MP-based ninjutsu this time - ESPECIALLY if you plan to bring back Utsusemi. Tools + no Recast = bullshit.

EDIT: It is kinda funny now that I think about it for us to wield lances for standard combat. On a chocobo sure, but even for "Jump" attacks, it's kinda BS. Lances are extremely heavy and unwieldly, and really meant for mounted combat.

[Etra]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I know, right? How comes they can wield lances so easily? Not to mention, properly shoot fire magic at things? When I try my fire magic at home, I can never aim it!

[Raydeus]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

I might have the wrong thing in mind, but I thought the naginata was a standard spear and not a lance? Spears are primarily used not just because they're cheap, but because of the reach and superior stopping power they employ - the force from a good trust of a spear is far more efficient than hacking and slashing with a sword. And you're 100% right about the tanto blade. Don't forget the Nodachi either, though those were extremely rare as while they were quite powerful swords, they were also terribly unwieldly (nothing quite like Sephiroth's masamune but still damn long). They were more or less the JP equivalent of a claymore, though not quite as impressive in terms of stopping power (Claymores were intended to for use against full plate mail afterall and samurai never wore armor that thick or bulky).


I would love to see NIN get a Kusari-gama this time around as well, and not just katana. Shuriken had damn well better be affordable this time as well. Oh, and please, MP-based ninjutsu this time - ESPECIALLY if you plan to bring back Utsusemi. Tools + no Recast = bullshit.

EDIT: It is kinda funny now that I think about it for us to wield lances for standard combat. On a chocobo sure, but even for "Jump" attacks, it's kinda BS. Lances are extremely heavy and unwieldly, and really meant for mounted combat.

Yari was used mainly against Cavalry, just like it happens in Shogun. Yari are just very long poles with a pointy end soldiers would just plant on the ground and raise the pointy side to create a spiky barrier horses would just impale against, and had practically nothing in common in use or construction with European spears. Naginata on the other hand was usually much shorter and was basically a staff with a blade in one side, because of this they are just as easy to wield as a bo, and again had very little in common with a western spear.

Some used longer Naginatas for melee combat but they were more a type of specialization rather than the standard from what I understand.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

[Aeni]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Naginata = Guan Dao = Glaive

Basically the blade of any katana/dachi attached to the end of a fair length pole.

Yari = Spear aka Harpoon

Various types of implements, including hooks, straight blades and points, attached to the end of a very long pole.

The difference is practically ... none. How a particular clan, bushi or jutsu make use of these weapons either are tied to tradition and/or obscure military tactics. The Yari was probably seen as the most flexible in use and probably cheaper to make (because it doesn't require a finely crafted blade like the Naginata requires) Although more specialized implements would require additional cost to craft, either in material, shape or form.

In either case, none of these types of "polearms" are of any use in households or garrisons. In confined spaces, they are often hindrances (In Mononoke Hime, you'll see the women being handed naginata/yari and having them get caught in doorways/ceilings on their way out) This is where short blades and long daggers would be more effective. Out in the field, where there is more room, a company of "pikesman" would be a sight to behold and would also "ward off" any potential calvary threat. They were basically the "shield" for the rifle and archer companies during the Sengoku period.

[Firewind]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Guys you're completely missing the entire point about the spear:

Boring, but Practical - Television Tropes & Idioms

It's a cheap and effective weapon that has a ton of uses and works very well when you have a bunch of guys standing together holding them and, your entire army can be outfitted with and easily drilled with them. Oh and horses won't go near them. If you look over the contemporary sources you see more and more spears appearing as more and more ashigaru footsoldiers are appearing. Remember wars are expensive and fully trained warriors are hard to replace if they die in battle.

The spears used by the samurai and ashigaru were also different (Ray only posted pikes used by Ashigaru), the ones used by the Ashigaru were more like pikes as it is far easier and cheaper to train someone who has just been plucked out of the fields how to drill with a pike or matchlock in large formations than it it to train him to use a sword. That and a charge, mounted or dismounted is going to be much more effective with a spear or pike than sword. Spears used by Samurai were more your traditional spear in terms of length.

And Raydeus, Naginata fighting is basically the same as quarterstaff fighting which is also the exact same style used when wielding a pollaxe, glaive, voulge, guan dao or similar weapon. They appeared due to the samurai fighting as cavalry than vanished when matchlocks appeared.

Also Onne bugeisha used Naginata for a bunch of reasons:

• It is a very versatile weapon
• It fit in with convention
• Since fighting with one is similar to fighting with a bo (staff), training with one was also less off a hassle. You can train your naginata technique literally any time you can pick up a really big bit of wood.
• They are pretty good against people on horseback since horses tend to be afraid of large pointy blady things
• It is actually a pretty useful weapon in close quarters considering that you can fight with one with just the arc in front of you clear while a swordsman is going to need clearance pretty much all around him
• Height, strength and weight are less important while wielding one since you are keeping the other person at a distance.
• You are going to have to get suicidally close to a swordsman to kill him with a knife in close quarters.

No sane army uses a weapon purely because it's cheap & easily produced.

Where is Yyg's Jackie Chan picture when you need it? I don't think there can can be any other answer such a dumb statement.

Well there is the most perfect example ever right here: Sling (weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

You're right, I forgot - the Italians used cheap, easily made pieces of crap all the time

[Fliegar]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

In other news, I'm deleting my character and re-rolling as a male Miqo'te. (Where the hell is the apostrophe supposed to go in there?)

I'd probably roll with the Samurai class if they release it at some point, but at this point I'd just be happy with Monk and Dragoon.

[Etra]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

In other news, I'm deleting my character and re-rolling as a male Miqo'te. (Where the hell is the apostrophe supposed to go in there?)

I'd probably roll with the Samurai class if they release it at some point, but at this point I'd just be happy with Monk and Dragoon.

...Or you can just change his race/gender upon release of 2.0.

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Yeah they're letting us re-roll our characters for 2.0 while keeping our stats items & progression.

And you had it right, it's "Miqo'te"

AFAIK Only Arcanist will be there at launch, with SMN coming in the 1st patch.

[Firewind]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Didn't Yyg quit FFXIV due to no Summoner?

[Malacite]

Re: 25th Anniversary Translation (MASSIVE CHANGES ON THE WAY)

Sorta - I think it also had to do with the way they are planning on introducing the Primals (free company summons).