Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

[Taskmage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

At first I was frustrated by your flip response, but then I was just disappointed in you.

[DakAttack]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

He's trying to minimize his apparent investment in this discussion. He's on the defensive.

[jenova_9]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Well they are redeeming themselves with A Realm Reborn, mew! Just like they are making a "cultural shift" out of their past habits, people should make their own "cultural shift" out of their bitterness about the company, mew. But what's even more notorious than companys developers cultural habits, is also the community's bad cultural habits, like expecting freebies for everything, self entitled corruption, pirating, hacking, etc. etc. So I don't think consumers should act like their side is totally pure and innocent while companies are entirely to blame for the way things been running. They made mistakes like consumers are still making mistakes with their own cultural flaws that have also damaged the industry (like used game sales), mew.

[DakAttack]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Used game sales are just another way publishers want to line their pockets. Gamestop makes a killing off of people stupid enough to trade their games in for near to free, there's nothing fair the industry can do to stop that.

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

He's trying to minimize his apparent investment in this discussion. He's on the defensive.

I wish that was the case, it would've been much more interesting that way. <_<

But nah, it just wasn't even worth the time to type a proper reply. Heck, I'm surprised I even typed that much to begin with.

[jenova_9]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

it still doesn't hide the fact that the consumer culture that buy used games are contributing to a big problem in the industry (besides piracy). Stupidity is no excuse. There are guilty consumers just as there are guilty company employees, mew. Even the attitude of consumers that expect Free subscription mmorpgs while expecting the same quality as pay to play mmorpgs, has corrupted society, which in turn has caused companies to make their mmos smaller, cheaper, and dumber since there is no money to give developers incentives to make things bigger and better than something basic with cash shops and the occasional small expansion. Then people run out of things to do faster and leave, blaming the mmo instead of their freebie mentality.

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I'm guilty of wanting faster and slimmer gameplay, since I really don't have as much time to waste just traveling from point A to point B to do something.

However I don't think that conflicts with the longevity of an MMOG. It's all about designing a game world rich enough that you have fun and feel like you've done something even if all you did was walk half of that time. Which brings me back to Skyrim, I am one of the weirdos that completely stopped using fast travel because the world is so rich you actually feel like you are missing something if you use the fast lane. And Most MMOGs lack that, in part because they just can't seem to find the way to add all that richness while supporting so many players in the areas at the same time.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

it still doesn't hide the fact that the consumer culture that buy used games are contributing to a big problem in the industry (besides piracy).

Before that it was renting video games at Blockbuster. It's not some great evil. Put the glass down and stop drinking the koolaid J9.

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Free to play has really hurt P2P games though. But it was not because people just wanted something free, it was because once F2P games demonstrated they could have relatively the same quality of gameplay as a P2P that completely negated the perception that P2P equaled quality. If anything it seems to have proven P2P leads to stagnation.

Although F2P are fun and disposable for the most part, which isn't very good for games either.



And that is why I'm still looking for an MMOG friendly enough so I can get a ton of fun with 3 hours to play but strong enough content wise I can sink a few years playing it regularly. orz




PS > F2P or P2P makes no difference for me.

[jenova_9]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

aah but there is a difference, mew. If this turned out to be F2P, the servers would close faster than....than Metal Gear Online servers, there would be maybe 1 expansion but that's it. Maybe if they need more subscribers some time after launch, they can do something like WoW that lets players play for free up to certain level, in a way that's better than just giving it away totally for free like DCUO, which is just another stagnant cash shop driven mmo (well I think its half fee option, half free option, but its understandable that DCUO went free since it isn't even near the level of FFXI quality and not nearly as much to do, and despite it's "action packed" gameplay, combat feels so blah, there's not enough incentives to party, and it has one of the worst text chat systems and UI in history.) but ya back on topic, people should evaluate 2.0 launch with a clean slate, mew.

[cidbahamut]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Free to play has really hurt P2P games though. But it was not because people just wanted something free, it was because once F2P games demonstrated they could have relatively the same quality of gameplay as a P2P that completely negated the perception that P2P equaled quality. If anything it seems to have proven P2P leads to stagnation.

Isn't that a good thing for the industry overall though? If it points out how games are stagnating then there's presumably motivation to create a better product for consumers to throw their money at as a result. Oh wait, no, that was just wishful thinking on my part.

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Isn't that a good thing for the industry overall though? If it points out how games are stagnating then there's presumably motivation to create a better product for consumers to throw their money at as a result. Oh wait, no, that was just wishful thinking on my part.

You are right. It is a good thing, it should be a good thing. But it seems people just takes the easy road and instead of putting more effort into making quality games to keep players interested and paying they just fold back and go for the revolving door quick buck method. orz

Games like DCUO and STO suffer from that, they are awesome and make you spend money on them for a couple of months. And then you get to the big void after the initial good content that just leaves you wondering what the heck were you doing there to begin with.

[Malacite]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

On almost every article I read about XIV, in the comments there's always at least 1 retard asking or demanding that the game become F2P.

Will these people ever learn that you get what you pay for, and that FP2 is actually a terrible model? MMO's require substantially more effort to update and maintain over most other genres, and yet this somehow eludes people.

[Taskmage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

If you're assuming that F2P necessarily means the developer gets less money and therefore can't afford to spend as much effort on content updates and maintenance, you're operating on a fallacy as well. LotRO's revenues famously tripled after switching to a F2P model. F2P can be done right just as subscription can be done wrong. Hell, back when subscriptions were a new thing nobody thought they would ever work either.

[Ketaru]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

it still doesn't hide the fact that the consumer culture that buy used games are contributing to a big problem in the industry (besides piracy). Stupidity is no excuse. There are guilty consumers just as there are guilty company employees, mew.

Elaborate, please. Buying used is a reaction to games getting more expensive, consoles getting more expensive, and the other costs that are starting to become associated with playing video games. Far from "stupidity", it's actually a very smart way to play your games these days. I used to buy New exclusively, but buying used has started to become more convenient. Meanwhile, the companies publishing the games keep on forcing hurdles on the consumer, supposedly to combat these loss of sales.

Without some elaboration on your part, I'm going to assume you're all for paying the full price on faith alone that it'll improve the industry if everybody did that. But faith has to be earned. Even the most conservative, pro-Romney Tea Party American I know refuses to buy an American car.