Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

[DakAttack]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Somebody is a fan of SWOTOR.

[Firewind]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Normally I wouldn't bite but Sundays are fucking boring for me so...

It's more frustration at seeing a very good game being run into the ground by two companies that have no idea as to how to run MMOs more than anything else. Really SWTOR had the same problem as FFXIV but nowhere near as extreme: the game needed more development time and the publishers were idiots for pushing for an early release. The devs were also idiots for caving in to that.

[Etra]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

You don't really do context very well, do you?

Because outright saying you want something to fail is context.

[Taskmage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Raydeus wants to punish the weak and the wicked, and since he can't, the best he can do is hope they fail on their own. If XIV failed he'd see that as karmic justice against the people in SE who worked so hard toward that result. Trouble is, there are both people involved who deserve success and who deserve failure, so no matter what the result it won't feel like justice.

[jenova_9]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Tanaka already stepped down and left. And the people behind the other FF projects have nothing to do with the new team working on FFXIV 2.0, so it's unjustified to have bad feelings towards SE as a whole. I mean it's like treating new Dunkin Donuts employees harsh because the previous employees put Olive Oil in your coffee, mew. That's not fair attitude towards the new employees and new manager working there. Also it's already proven SE is totally making effort to redeem themselves with 2.0, so no sense dwelling in the past. As for the other projects, that's another story, but how other teams handle the other FFs, should not cause people to treat FFXIV team the same way.

[Icemage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Tanaka already stepped down and left. And the people behind the other FF projects have nothing to do with the new team working on FFXIV 2.0, so it's unjustified to have bad feelings towards SE as a whole. I mean it's like treating new Dunkin Donuts employees harsh because the previous employees put Olive Oil in your coffee, mew. That's not fair attitude towards the new employees and new manager working there. Also it's already proven SE is totally making effort to redeem themselves with 2.0, so no sense dwelling in the past. As for the other projects, that's another story, but how other teams handle the other FFs, should not cause people to treat FFXIV team the same way.

I don't put blame on the guys forced into cleanup duty on FFXIV, but if you don't think I'm going to hold Square-Enix as a company responsible for the train wrecks of FFXIII and FFXIV, you've got another thing coming. Mismanagement got them where they are, and the corporate suits who let these projects spiral out of control and then decided to wake up out of their drug coma one day and just put crap in a box because "the fanboys will buy it anyway" are still working at Square-Enix.


Icemage

[Aeni]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

SWTOR and Rift has failed releases?

Yes, they were failed releases. (1) The number of subscribers fall below peak BEFORE the first expansion (or major content) release (2) Active population goes down to the point that a company would consider server consolidation. This is the exact opposite problem of successful titles where they are constantly expanding servers to accommodate a growing population prior to the first expansion (or major content) release.

When I said release, I mean it as the "first game, before any content additions".

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Tanaka already stepped down and left.

You need to read that article that I posted. They clearly spelled out the problem as being cultural (as in, not only SE, but ALL JAPANESE GAMING COMPANIES) Tanaka-san was the proverbial scapegoat. If you really think about it, the guilt should've been equally shared with all Japanese gaming companies. However, since Tanaka-san was at the helm from inception to release, he was the sole lightning rod in shareholders wrath. I'm almost certain many more people were fired or moved around within the company as a result, but since they're no one famous and it's internal, you won't ever hear about it.

This cultural shift will start with ARR. Again, if Yoshi-P succeeds, he'll be seen as the man that brought change to the Japanese gaming development for MMOs. I expect this trend to continue into Korea and Taiwan, both notoriously guilty of modeling their development on top of the Japanese system, and especially Korean MMOs where some of the dumbest kinds of games come from (the so called "grinding experience").

[Malacite]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I don't put blame on the guys forced into cleanup duty on FFXIV, but if you don't think I'm going to hold Square-Enix as a company responsible for the train wrecks of FFXIII and FFXIV, you've got another thing coming. Mismanagement got them where they are, and the corporate suits who let these projects spiral out of control and then decided to wake up out of their drug coma one day and just put crap in a box because "the fanboys will buy it anyway" are still working at Square-Enix.


Icemage

This. 1000x this. Tanaka may have been the one to drive XIV to an untimely (thankfully temporary) demise, but he didn't do that on his own. Someone had to be responsible for some level of oversight and let that shit slip by. I seriously have to question what happened to their quality control people. I'm sure even Yoshi P is under intense scrutiny, despite all the amazing progress he's made with XIV. Whoever decided to put him in charge though (probably Wada) gets major props. When in doubt, stick your best DQ guy on the job lol, since DQ > FF in Japan.

- - - Updated - - -

You need to read that article that I posted. They clearly spelled out the problem as being cultural (as in, not only SE, but ALL JAPANESE GAMING COMPANIES) Tanaka-san was the proverbial scapegoat. If you really think about it, the guilt should've been equally shared with all Japanese gaming companies. However, since Tanaka-san was at the helm from inception to release, he was the sole lightning rod in shareholders wrath. I'm almost certain many more people were fired or moved around within the company as a result, but since they're no one famous and it's internal, you won't ever hear about it.

This cultural shift will start with ARR. Again, if Yoshi-P succeeds, he'll be seen as the man that brought change to the Japanese gaming development for MMOs. I expect this trend to continue into Korea and Taiwan, both notoriously guilty of modeling their development on top of the Japanese system, and especially Korean MMOs where some of the dumbest kinds of games come from (the so called "grinding experience").

This is something that Keiji Inafune has been ranting about for some time now and he's absolutely right. It only takes a glance at Capcom to or even Namco arguably to realize something's seriously wrong in Japan across the board.

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Because outright saying you want something to fail is context.

Lrn2read.

Raydeus wants to punish the weak and the wicked, and since he can't, the best he can do is hope they fail on their own. If XIV failed he'd see that as karmic justice against the people in SE who worked so hard toward that result. Trouble is, there are both people involved who deserve success and who deserve failure, so no matter what the result it won't feel like justice.

I like how selective you and Etra can be about reading a post and just picking a line while completely disregarding everything else in there.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I like how selective you and Etra can be about reading a post and just picking a line while completely disregarding everything else in there.

Though Etra might have missed what you had just said, I'm sure TM hit the nail on the head.

/shantotto/zecora

[Etra]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I'm sure TM hit the nail on the head.

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I like how selective you and Etra can be about reading a post and just picking a line while completely disregarding everything else in there.

I didn't take it out of context. I took a line saying you half hope them to fail. How is that taking things out of context? I disregarded everything else in there as it didn't pertain to my post.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I didn't take it out of context. I took a line saying you half hope them to fail. How is that taking things out of context? I disregarded everything else in there as it didn't pertain to my post.

That was exactly taking it out of context, in this context. The other half was hoping them to succeed, like you implied that he should have been doing with an ad hominem attack.

Basically, in line with what TM said, Ray was conflicted between being a spiteful dick and a hopeful supporter.

[Etra]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

That was exactly taking it out of context, in this context. The other half was hoping them to succeed, like you implied that he should have been doing with an ad hominem attack.

Basically, in line with what TM said, Ray was conflicted between being a spiteful dick and a hopeful supporter.

Which is what I was saying. To have an emotion where you hope someone fails is a bit harmful to one's own person. Even if the other half of him wants it to succeed. To have the former, even with the latter, is not a good thing and something is going wrong there.

Raydeus just needs some Raptor Jesus love.

[Taskmage]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

I like how selective you and Etra can be about reading a post and just picking a line while completely disregarding everything else in there.

I note that you don't say I'm wrong.

Taking something out of context is when you separate a phrase from other phrases that dramatically change its meaning. If you said "I support abortions in all cases where it would save the life of the mother" and somebody quoted only the first six words to support the headline "Raydeus Wants All Babies Aborted" then THAT would be taking something out of context. If someone says "I'm not sure if I want a hamburger or a baked potato" it indicates the person wants each of those things to some extent. Each of those desires can be addressed independently. That's not "taking it out of context." If someone were to call you out on supporting the dysfunctional beef industry, it would be meaningless to say "You're taking me out of context! You conveniently disregarded that I'd also like a potato!"

You want credit for also wanting XIV to succeed. I get that. It's also completely irrelevant to Etra's point, which is that you shouldn't want them it fail at all. I imperiously believe I know your reason for wanting that and don't think it's such a bad one, so I explained it. I also noted why you would be conflicted about it, which implicitly acknowledges the rest of your post. lrn2readcritically

[Raydeus]

Re: Gamasutra: Can Final Fantasy XIV really be 'reborn'?

Yeah, sure Tasky.