Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

[Balfree]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

But then folks would simply summon avatars to unleash their signature move which would have to be pretty strong in order for it to be worth 3k tp and the MP cost.

Not that i see anything wrong with that but then itl be the same as FFXI where people wish they could leave the avatars out for longer.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

SMN in FFXIV.... mua.... muaha.... muahaha..... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[jenova_9]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

They should just make SMNs pets like before, and they can act as the DD for the SMN. So the damage output for a summon would rival that of the best classes for DD. So SMNs are acceptable for DD role.

also certain SMNS could help for buffs and stuff, so SMNs can choose different ways to help the party and still be useful and stuff.

as for MP drain, maybe summons can win back MP by hitting enemies and stuff. So they can stay as long as they are actively doing basic attacks.

So ya there are ways to balanced SMN so they are just as wanted like other classes, mew.

[Yygdrasil]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

They should just make SMNs pets like before, and they can act as the DD for the SMN. So the damage output for a summon would rival that of the best classes for DD. So SMNs are acceptable for DD role.

also certain SMNS could help for buffs and stuff, so SMNs can choose different ways to help the party and still be useful and stuff.

as for MP drain, maybe summons can win back MP by hitting enemies and stuff. So they can stay as long as they are actively doing basic attacks.

So ya there are ways to balanced SMN so they are just as wanted like other classes, mew. and stuff

FTFY

[Aeni]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

There's multiple ways of handling this conundrum without overpowering the class.

What j9 proposed is the exact same carbon copy of what's already in FFXI. Apparently, that's not a good idea. So I won't flog the poor dead horse anymore.

I think /beastmode would be interesting, much like the Warlock's metamorphosis in WoW. One just has to look to a close cousin, FFXIII, for something similar.

To start off with, you would have to unlock a SMN class first. The trial would include having to defeat one of the Prime Avatars and then you start off with that avatar as your foundation. It would have to be a benign avatar that will be a "jack-of-all-trades, master-at-none" but you'd only have to worry about this for the first 10 levels.

At level 10, you'll be granted an opportunity to go through another trial, this time on your SMN. You get another avatar.

Now, to back up, each avatar will have the following:

1 basic ability that can be used across all avatars the SMN possesses.
2 core abilities that are unique to the avatar
1 core passive ability unique to the avatar

As the character levels, so will the avatar that is being released (this fixes the issue about an avatar not being high enough of a level or too high of a level (not sure if that could ever happen) and eliminates unfair grinding penalty against the SMN) With every so many levels, each avatar will gain additional core abilities to beef up the arsenal and maybe you can purchase additional passive abilities with guild marks that will be usable no matter which avatar is in effect.

Additionally, the abilities will be unique, and have their own animations. I realize that this would probably be additional work for the programmers, but if you make the class unavailable for everyone unless they "unlock" it, then it:

-Makes it valuable
-Adds a unique perspective to the class
-Keeps players interest

Like I said, there's more than one way to do this, but I rather them not making a beefy autonomous "I WIN BUTTON" kind of pet system. There's no skill in something like that and it really takes away from the game. I don't care if you argue that you still have to have a player interaction somehow. IMO we already compromised too much with an auto-attack feature that took considerable amounts of wind from the sail.

[jenova_9]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

There's multiple ways of handling this conundrum without overpowering the class.

What j9 proposed is the exact same carbon copy of what's already in FFXI..

That is not true! At least when I played, overall all levels (except maybe 75), SMNs had very awful and terrible and atrocious accuracy and damage over time results with their summons. Embarrassingly so.


There is no way something like Titan, Shiva, etc. could keep up with the DoT that other classes like Samurai, Black Mages, and other classes can inflict over time.

SMNs for majority of their career were known as weak of the weak for dealing damage, and so they were next to useless compared to other classes that have better attacks, buffs, healing and still have MP to spare, mew!


oh ya they can equip rings or whatever or grind their summon to make them have better stats or something, but overall, Summon was a very troublesome class that required a lot of effort but paid little until like much much later on.

Also coupled with fact that summons drain MP, yet their performance was even surpassed by DRG's wyvern in most DoT cases, and you have a cannon that only is useful for it's 2 hour, since it's rate of misses and damage almost feels like casting Poison, that's how weak SMNs felt like at least level 10-60.

when a SMN is weaker on offense than BLMs, you know they need improvements since SMNs generally spend more MP than BLMs.

and when something that doesn't need MP like SAM does better rate of damage than SMNs, that is also unbalanced because SMNs are known to be the most powerful magic users, but in FFXI they aren't true to their reputation.

And since magic costs MP, they generally should do more damage than weapons and have MP to spare, otherwise people would just choose damage classes like SAM since they are a war machine that doesn't cost MP.

But the original role of SMNs is major damage (like BLMs), but I think developers tried to make it too many things, and therefore nerfed their capabilities and made summons miss too much and not do that much damage compared to DoT professional classes.

if SMN was a powerful as a BLM or SAM, then the tiers would merge better since they would be around the same level of performance.

[Aeni]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

if SMN was a powerful as a BLM or SAM, then the tiers would merge better since they would be around the same level of performance

This may have been true after they nerfed (or over-nerfed SMN) after I quit playing FFXI, but my experience suggested that having SMNs were a requirement for any end game activity at the time. 8 SMNs on a Vtra fight? That's 8 out of 24 present members or 33% of the total representation. Even in the LS I was in, albeit smaller and not as ambitious and successful as the bigger, well-known LS on Hades (Before the server consolidations), we could not have taken down some of the NMs w/o having a SMN onboard for timely buffs that would fill in gaps that would otherwise go unfilled. It lead to smoother fights and sometimes they tend to trivialize the fight.

The game should've been balanced with active participation with all classes, but should also take into account a situation where a particular class may not be present (i.e., RDM, SMN or BRD) But then again, the whole game was slip-shoddy in that regards, so maybe they can get this done better in FFXIV.

I like how the game currently (I do say this with a bit of trepidation because Yoshi-P never really wrote an opinion piece about this yet) do not require a certain class in order to successfully complete a challenge. It should continue to stay that way. I do not wish to see the same BS where one class all of a sudden dominates and then everyone starts filling up their ranks with nothing but that class like in FFXI (WoW was very guilty of this as well, but they have less classes in that game than you would find in FFXI)

[Malacite]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

I still like my idea of them gradually consuming TP as opposed to hemorrhaging MP. The only trick there is how to balance the signature ability.

I still think using that should consume all remaining TP and dismiss the summon to keep people from spamming it. The extra effect for having additional TP can be subject to change, and is another tricky dilemma. On the one hand, you don't want BP cycling like in XI, but you don't want to feel cheated out of potential damage/buffs/whatever either.

Unless these abilities are the only ones that consume the SMN's MP just like in XI as an additional cost - hopefully that would sufficiently curb any spam/abuse. LOL that's probably one of the only things SE got right in XI with SMN...

[jenova_9]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

oh ya, they should also test the class's career in its entirety.

Just because a class is most wanted in the top level stuff and NMs, doesn't mean they are useful or wanted before they reach that point.

That's why most would just drop SMN before even level 20 because that class warms the bench more than other classes that are demanded more. a class only getting really good at best levels/equips doesn't make it overall good choice for most people.

If people can kick tail and progress comfortably with other classes at any level, the same should be for any class they add.

I think FFXIV SMN should focus on DD, but whatever they choose, it should be really good at something, instead of able to do multiple things but not as good as classes that specialize better.

(that was also a problem with DNC, that class was neither the best healer, buff, tank or DD, and so other classes got invited before DNCs do in most cases, and more importantly, those other classes got to contribute to the party much more than DNCs overall. WHM better healer, BRD better buff, PLD better tank, SAM or DRG better DD.)

ya I think FFXIV they could make classes so they are all really good at least one thing, or able to switch role in party so they can be good at whatever they setup for, healing, DD, tank, etc. Class tiers is something that should be avoided mew.

[Aeni]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

I think FFXIV SMN should focus on DD, but whatever they choose, it should be really good at something, instead of able to do multiple things but not as good as classes that specialize better.

The problem with this is that not all the avatars were for DD. If you can remember (from an FF historical perspective, not just in FFXI, because this is not an FFXI game) that generally the avatars themselves were specialized in something. You'd have Carbuncle that was associated with healing, Shiva DD Ice, Ifrit DD Fire, etc... sometimes they even had buffs/debuffs associated with a particular element or attribute or magical focus.

We do know there is a specific number of avatars in FFXIV because of the lore, what was presented and the numerous developer interviews. So, it's safe to assume that these will be released over time. That means that they need to carefully plan and ration out the abilities. What's the point of having additional avatars if the first 6 had 99% of all that a SMN would need or use?

Again, this should NOT BE a starting class. If Yoshi-P goes this route, he's going to hang himself on w/e format he chooses for the class. It's too big a risk to take especially since SE is already doing damage control and struggling to encourage players to come back to this game.

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

I forgot to also add, especially those of you who haven't played FFXIV yet ...

Whatever they choose to do for these new classes, like the SMN, they'll need to remember that other classes are going to be able to access their abilities. Not all, mind you, but this is why the whole process is going to be complicated. They have to try to not create overlapping abilities and spells which would cause confusion among players and then start to create divisions by creating false superiority arguments between the classes. All classes should be useful and the choices should be strictly limited to the role a player wants to play, not whether or not a particular class is OP.

[jenova_9]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

well I thin only SMN should be able to summon beasts. Maybe other classes can use their Elemental summon abilities and minor abilities, but ya, I don't think people want other classes to take advantage of classes most special abilities.

It's just how people only leveled NIN for shadows basically, and they are not true ninja! I can understand sharing dual wielding, but Ninjutsu is a NIN's most unique abilities, mew!

[Aeni]

Re: Hyper Interview! The truth is out there extra long interview!

It's just how people only leveled NIN for shadows basically, and they are not true ninja! I can understand sharing dual wielding, but Ninjutsu is a NIN's most unique abilities, mew!

That's as useless as subbing SMN, except you won't have any summons out. No, they'll let other classes have summons out, if they do it like the way you'd want them (i.e., actually having a physical summon out) However, if they use any of the other suggestions here, then they avoid that trap, because then you can deal with what is and isn't exclusive as far as spells and abilities go.